Base Coat

[de1kustomizer]

I am painting my Dodge Truck with a bc/cc. I noticed after I finished that the hood checked really bad, so now I have to sand the whole hood to the metal. Can anyone enlighten me on how much time one can have on a base coat and still clear it or do I need to reshoot the entire base coat again. Someone mentioned just scuffing the base and clearing.

 

[BonesFX]

Checked?? I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Most base coats on the market can be left un cleared for 24 hours. Check with your jobber or try to obtain the tech sheet and see what it says. As far as scuffing goes, you have to be careful with that. It works well on black and very dark colors but don't do it on metallics or light colors - the scratches will trap dust and dirt and really show up in the clear -- Bones!~

 

[orange peel]

now that you have clear coat down, just use 800 grit (wet) to sand to open the surface of the paint. Then reshoot your base color then clear it. This time make sure you have enough time to base and clear in the same day.

(Never get bit by the same dog twice.)

 

[Jim]

Hey Bones,Have you ever cleared HOK past thier one hour window?If so,how long and was it ok?

 

[BonesFX]

Is that what they say their window is?? LOL!!!

If I'm doin art or airbrushing over a base I know I'm not gonna have it done quick enough to clear the job without having to scuff it up - The first thing I do when I base is come back and scuff the base or shoot the base with intercoat clear and scuff that - Once I start my art I rarely scuff anymore over the art, or put on more intercoat clear. I know there are people here that will shoot intercoat clear over every step of their paint job to protect it and for adhesion, but I don't and I've never had a problem with delamination. Even if you don't clear within the given window the clear will still bite into the base and art. If you have a mural or a lot of airbrush work that will even add more tooth for the clear to grab on to. Now, the majority of my work is bikes, and I know there not going to get the same treatment as say your daily driver with the extremes of hot and cold.... So that helps when it comes to painting the job. Maybe save a little time and money. And to all of you that think I'm short cutting and cheating by giving my clients a sub par paint job, I would beg to differ. I have one job I did 6 years ago and when I first started I didn't know you were supposed to scuff or sand between coats and I just based, laid out the art and cleared and that one has hung on the metal!! Of course I always try to scuff between coats when possible to promote adhesion. I'm not crazy about intercoat clear as I've seen it eat right through 8 hours worth of airbrushing, but I will use it when it should be used. Also, The thing to remember with your final clear is that its a topcoat sealer. Meaning that it "holds" the hole paint job together, So make sure you shoot all the way around the tanks and fender to "seal" them!! Peace! Bones!~

 

[John Pierce]

Jim - the only HOK product that has a one hour window is their catalyzed Kandy -- the base coats (metallics,intercoat, shimrons, PBC and KBC) have a 12 hour window.

JP

 

[Jim]

John,This was copied from a HOK tech sheet"

"Allow dry time before Kandy or clear is applied (usually about 30 minutes and not longer than 1 hour). Artwork may usually be taped after 1 hour of dry time. Dry time may vary based on shop and weather conditions. "

This what I went by when I did my bike and was worried about using HOK for my 66Chevelle.Are you saying you have cleared HOK longer than an hour and had no problems?That would be great,I like to sand and dustcoat before I clear.

Bones,With all the posts you've made,I dought anyone here thinks you do substandard work! Seems the longer you do this,the more you learn,I'm still useing tech sheets,Because I don't paint enough to try new stuff,I know you experienced painters mix brands and such but for a newbie,the tech sheets are a surefire way to get a nice job without problems.Too bad more people don't look at them.I was on this board for two months before I tried my first job,No problems-No peel and slick as glass!I could'nt believe I did it myself.

 

[albertamike]

I laid the base coaat on my bike and then was called out of town for two and a half days. When I came back I scuffed it with a 3m pad and put on the clear and it is fine . That was using Dupont material. After two months it is still looking great. Maybe I was just lucky.

 

[rex]

de1,this is probably late but you should scuff the basecoat with a grey scuffy and blow another coat over it before clearing.For the hood checks,are you sure they weren't there and never noticed?Dodge trucks have had problems right up there with Ford's and I'm noticing alot more factory repaints.Dodge is also using a real thick primer over the e-coat.I've seen quite a few checked ones and even more delams.The worst I saw yet was 4 factory paintjobs over the thick primer and it was starting to check.You really had to look for it but if you sand it and hit it with sealer or base they really get magnified.Usually you can spot these factory screwups because the paint either has a large funky peel to it or it's got a nasty haze to it and looks like it's shrinking up into a sandblasted texture.

 

[Jim]

From what I read,both PPG and Dupont have nice long windows,HOK is the only one I heard of so far that has such a short one.I'm sure they are just reccomendations but,I'm afraid to push it.I paint so little,I'd like it to be right the first time.Anyone out there go over that window with HOK products on a regular basis?

 

[rex]

Hey Jim,how's the hotrod comming?I can't say on the HOK but I'm fixing to do a black pearl of theirs on a scooter.I'm only using the pearl and everything else is PPG but I'm using HOKs guidelines for the pearl.Remember that all those times are based on 70 degrees and as the temp changes so do the times,every 15 degrees hotter cut the time in 1/2,every 15 cooler add 50%-ie. on a 24hr open window at 85 it's 12,at 100 it's 6.Same is true about the pot life too,really sucks working with a 1hr potlife at 100.

 

[Jim]

Hey Rex,Whats going on?The Chevelle is coming along great!I just got it running again yesterday.the body is all done,just waiting for paint,the engine compartment is done,Reran a bunch of wireing,painted the motor and pullies and all that crap,gotta finish the interior then paint it.I decided to wait on paint til I was done with everything else,don't wanna scratch it up.Should be done in a month.Longer than I expected but,7 months ain't bad for almost a total rebuild.see ya,Jim

 

[John Pierce]

Hi Jim,

After your comments about the 1 hour window, I kinda went "Huh?" -

"Allow dry time before Kandy or clear is applied (usually about 30 minutes and not longer than 1 hour)."

I just double-checked and it definitely says in my "official" HOK manual there is a 12 hour window on BC-25 (Black) and BC-26 (white -- same thing on the Pearl Base Coats (PBC), graphic colors, glamour metallics, etc... the only one in the manual with a 1 hour window is the Kandy.

HOWEVER!

I just looked at:

Autobodysupply.net HOK tech sheets

and it says 1 hour max, just like you said! I personally have waited as long as 6 hours after BC-25 black before laying on the UC-35 with no problems at all. This is very perplexing! My HOK manual has a print date of May, 2002 on it. I also went back to my Jon Kosmoski's Kustom Painting Secrets book (print date 1995) and it says 1 hour max dry time before clearing just like you said!

Just to confuse things, here's a link which says 12 hours max just like my manual.

HOKpaint.com tech sheet

So why does my later-print date manual disagree? I have no idea -- I'm gonna fire off an email to HOK and ask them about it -- the manual is consistent all the way through -- 12 hours max before clear on anything except catalyzed Kandy. I personally kind of lay everything on one right after another, but it would be nice to know the real skinny!

I'll post the answer from HOK...

Thanks,
JP

p.s. -- I just read the "tips and tricks" on the HOK home page and they indicate SG-100 has a 12 hour window:

HOK Tips and Tricks

The autobodysupply.net tech sheet says SG-100 has a 1 hour window.... I'm thinking all the autobodysupply.net tech sheets are way old and are wrong with the current products...

JP

p.s.p.s.

Yeah, I know, shut up John your post is getting too long!!! haha! Anyway, I just wanted to mention I just remembered a paint job I did about 2 months ago and I sprayed BC-09 Planet Green metallic for the flames at about 9 pm at night and I sprayed UK-12 Pagan Gold Kandy the next morning at 7 am with no adhesion problems whatsoever. Shutting up now!

JP

 

[rex]

John,I've been hoping I wouldn't be the only one here to be called longwinded

Jim,I can't wait to see pix when she's done.Hopefully things will ease up sometime soon so I can get in here a little more often.I just can't seem to train the body to live on 4 hours sleep so I can get everything done.

Later guys

 

[John Pierce]

Rex,

No I am not.

JP

 

[Jim]

John,That's cool about the 12hr window,let me (and everyone) know what HOK says.This will be my first large job,I won't need 12hrs but,I'll need more than 1.

Rex,Get some damn sleep!I can't function without at least 6hrs.Well... sometimes I just can't function.Jim

 

[John Pierce]

Yeah, I'm hoping I get the same answer from HOK that is in my manual -- obviously, if it's real hot the window will be small, but here in Denver we get down in the 50's every night!

JP

 

[de1kustomizer]

Thanks for all the information . I went ahead and scuffed the base and re-based the black, then Cleared the whole truck. I also added a copper pearl to the clear and it stayed really nice. So far so good. Have a good day.