Base/Pearl/Clear lifting off primer...

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duckie1098

New member
I don't typically get to stumped on a project, typically if there is a mess up I can spot it and go ahead and beat myself in the head a few times. We all have messed up a job and need a hand in fixing it.

Let me first state a few things:

The front of the bike had sever damage, half of the front nose fairing had to be fiber glassed back together. After the fix it was sprayed with epoxy (I typically 2k primer these parts), then sprayed with base coat, then pearl, then cleared (down below I'll list the actual paints). Buffed for a complete flat and perfect clear, all clear must be completely flat before given to customers. The job came out great and was handed to the customer who put it all back together. We went to ROT rally together and got a lot of compliments and more business. The bike was put back together on Thursday, got a call the following Wed that he was having some issues and needed me to come meet him at his place. What I saw horrified me...it appeared the clear was wet and the bolts had pushed the paint up and away (bubbles around every bolt on the bike). Took it back to the shop and started sanding these area's to see what's going on....and the painted peeled like a banana skin right off the plastics.

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Picture above is how it came off, the white is the base coat. Seems to me it separated from the primer...why and how.



I went ahead and sanded everything back down, and started over....and once again the same thing. The first time it was only the front that peeled away, but every bolt hole was showing some push out (I believe the sides are due to the clear not being fully cured yet). Now I have a totally new front end from this client and decided to go back to 2k primer. I however need to figure out what is going on so it never happens again....you can't improve yourself unless you mess up and learn from it.


Materials used:
All from matrix and bought the same time for this job.
MP-480-Grey Epoxy Primer
MAV-420- Activator
MR-898- Extreme Temp Reducer (temps have been over 100 degrees)

MPX-B260 Glacier White (Base Coat)
MPX-P43- Black Pearl (sprayed like a candy paint)

Clear-
1st time around- Refinish Solutions RSC-210 4.2 High Solids Clear
2nd time around- Nason 4 hour clear (yes I walk in and ask by the dry time XD )

2nd time (which I'm doing the replacement front right now for) looks to be better than the first go around, though it almost instantly started the push back). I went ahead and bought some new clear for this new piece through Matrix here in town.




I know it's a long winded post, but if anyone had any idea's please let me know.

What it looked when I handed it to him....
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TAZ

TAZ

Administrator
Staff member
From what I see, there was quite a bit of material applied all at a fairly short amount of time, PLUS, it was mounted on the bike fairly quickly. I know that if you put a thicker type paint job like you did and you mount it quickly and you tighten the bolts too tight, the paint will definitely 'smush' out of the holes or the sides of the bolts.

A couple of things. You may want to just try a base hardener in the pearl coat. If you have too many unhardened coats under catalyzed clearcoat, it will never dry and will easily squeeze the paint out and all contact points.

As far as the peeling. This is fairly normal for a thicker fresh paint job once you get a very good point to peel back on. Normally it will peel very easily if the surface is warm.
 
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duckie1098

New member
TAZ said:
From what I see, there was quite a bit of material applied all at a fairly short amount of time, PLUS, it was mounted on the bike fairly quickly. I know that if you put a thicker type paint job like you did and you mount it quickly and you tighten the bolts too tight, the paint will definitely 'smush' out of the holes or the sides of the bolts.

A couple of things. You may want to just try a base hardener in the pearl coat. If you have too many unhardened coats under catalyzed clearcoat, it will never dry and will easily squeeze the paint out and all contact points.

As far as the peeling. This is fairly normal for a thicker fresh paint job once you get a very good point to peel back on. Normally it will peel very easily if the surface is warm.
Click to expand...


Thanks TAZ, never used a base hardener so I'll go grab some and check it out.
 
TAZ

TAZ

Administrator
Staff member
Yea, normally you really don't need it, but you may just want to try it in this case.
I believe we use somesort of universal hardener for the basecoats.
 
F

fontgeek

New member
How much time did you give the glass work do cure before you applied primers or paints?
What kind of plastic were the faring, fender, etc. made from, and did you run into any issues with the bonding of the fiberglass to the plastic?
You can run into issues with gasses the fiberglass and or the plastic can flash or give off, if they aren't completely cured before you proceed they can cause you all kinds of issues with anything you apply over them.
Like Taz, I'd be very concerned with what appears to be a very short period of time between the applications of the primer, paint, pearl, and clear.
 
D

duckie1098

New member
fontgeek said:
How much time did you give the glass work do cure before you applied primers or paints?
What kind of plastic were the faring, fender, etc. made from, and did you run into any issues with the bonding of the fiberglass to the plastic?
You can run into issues with gasses the fiberglass and or the plastic can flash or give off, if they aren't completely cured before you proceed they can cause you all kinds of issues with anything you apply over them.
Like Taz, I'd be very concerned with what appears to be a very short period of time between the applications of the primer, paint, pearl, and clear.
Click to expand...


The time between glassing and primer was a week, plastics are abs. There were no issues with the bonding process between the glass itself and the plastic. I sand the plastics with 60 grit, use a dremel to cut into the area making ridges, then use a small drill bit and punch holes every where then glass from front and back.

The last attempt between coats was a day.....however it still very thick. I'm going to bring out some old ducati 1098s fairings I have laying around. Tomorrow I have to head down the paint store so I'll go ahead and pick up some hardener and try it out on one fairing and do the other the old way to see the difference. Would rather test everything out on my scrap pieces then on a clients.

Thanks again, any help is appreciated and still trying to learn from my mistakes.
 
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