Clear won't stick...again.

[big stinkie]

Clear won\'t stick...again.

This is weird. It’s happened to me 3 times in the last 18 months.

Painted a tank with PPG DBC base and cleared with PPG Stratoclear 2082 and let it set a week. Scuffed it up and applied DBC flames and another coat of clear. So far, so good. Let it set 4 days, scuffed it up and applied shadows with DBC and an airbrush. The next day I sprayed more 2082 clear, but in several fist sized areas, the clear puddled up as if I were spraying water on an oily surface. You could see a ‘pattern’ in the puddles of clear that looked like streaks from wiping it down. The rest of the tank took the clear just fine.

I painted a tank last month using the same paint from the same cans, same can of PPG DX320 cleaner, clean rags, same gun, same compressor, same design, etc. It was perfect.

Seems to me that it must be a surface contamination problem. If it were the clear, it would affect the entire surface of the tank, not just some seemingly random spots. I must have gotten some crap on the tank after I airbrushed the shadows and before I cleared it, but I have no clue what or how. What’s so maddening is that I’m doing nothing different (that I know of) than I’ve done dozens of times prior. I took an example of the problem to the PPG place and explained just what I told you guys. They have no idea what’s going on, either.

I guess I really need to know what could cause the problem, and once I discover that I can keep from doing it again. I must stress that I clean the dickens out of things before I paint them. First I wipe it down with DX320 and a clean cloth, then repeat with another clean cloth. Could it be something that DX320 won’t remove? I dunno, but I’m about to pull out my hair! Aaaarrrrrgh!

You folks have always come through in the past, so I hope you can help me again.

Andy aka Big Stinkie

 

[ezrider]

Re: Clear won\'t stick...again.

Andy, what are you scuffing the surface up with between clearing sessions? Are you letting the 320 completly dry after wipping it off before shooting clear?

 

[DenB.]

Re: Clear won\'t stick...again.

could your tack rag be leaving some comtamination?

 

[TAZ]

Re: Clear won\'t stick...again.

I don't know if this is the cause, but if you use a tack rag that is too tacky, sometimes it will leave some of the "tackiness" on the surface. I know first hand.
Try using a "basecoat/clearcoat" tack rag. I believe a good one is called "surgical blues".

See if that takes care of it.

 

[rex]

Re: Clear won\'t stick...again.

You're not resting your hand on the sanded clear as you airbrush are you?It could be something like grease from lunch or dinner on your hand that didn't get washed off and the sanded clear is sucking it up.320 is weak when it comes to removing heavy contaminants but it will show you anything there.Get the surface wet and look at it,if there is fisheyes or a spot of contaminants you'll see them.Sometimes Ive had to wipe the surface down 4 and 5 times because I forgot to use 330 first or something from detail blew through and settled on it.Like you a swipe of fisheyes and craters show up.I haven't had the tackrag problem Scott had but it can happen if you push too hard and scrub with it.

 

[big stinkie]

Re: Clear won\'t stick...again.

Rex,

That might be it. Didn't know that hand oils could be absorbed that well and be so hard to remove. Next time I'll REALLY clean the dickens out of it...and I'll stop eating potato chips while I'm working on it. Just kidding.

FWIW, what I experienced wasn't craters or fisheyes. The clear actually balled up into seperate drops which weren't touching each other. Some of them were about as big around as a pencil. They looked just like a drop of water on an oily surface. Nothing subtle about 'em, either. The drops kinda lined up along what appeared to be the streaks from a rag. Real odd. Had the PPG guys scratching their heads.

Is 320 a decent cleaner, or is there another that you might recommend? I prefer PPG simply because the local PPG guys have been real good to me and I like to spend my $ there, but another brand would be fine if it'll stop this problem.

Thanks,

Andy

 

[DenB.]

Re: Clear won\'t stick...again.

if the clear is balling up like you say it would/could be a combo of both hand oils and extra tack

 

[rex]

Re: Clear won\'t stick...again.

Wow that's really bad,usually craters are a sign of serious probs but that's something I've only had happen once and it's like you said,like water drops on oil but it's clear.320 is good stuff but it's faster evaporating to be milder for the cleaning right before you tack and spray.330 is much more aggressive since it stays wet so long but it's a bit much for base.As long as the clear has cured like yours did the 330 would be fine.Remember a sanded surface becomes more porous and sucks up anything that gets on it so you have to wet and dry until the surface looks clean.That spot should have looked funny when it was wet.I don't wipe it on with a rag though because you can tend to spread contamination around or not wet it good enough if you get in a hurry or lazy.I use a qt sized metal pressurized sprayer called something like Sure Shot,it puts on a nice wet coat and you can save all the rags for removal.I use this for the 320 I use the most but I do still use 330 with the rag.Sounds like your hands are still a little oily.A few more years of this stuff and your hands will dry out

The best thing to do is wear surgical type gloves but they drive me nuts,so my hands are pretty dried out by now.

 

[TAZ]

Re: Clear won\'t stick...again.

This is what threw me off.

You could see a ‘pattern’ in the puddles of clear that looked like streaks from wiping it down.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Andy...can you post some good digital pictures of it?

 

[big stinkie]

Re: Clear won\'t stick...again.

Rats. Can't post any pictures of it, already fixed it up. But the way my luck goes I'll have the chance again. If/when it does I'll take some pictures.

Thanks again guys.

Andy

 

[Brian Dee]

Re: Clear won\'t stick...again.

Have had any silicone of any type in your shop,or have you spilled anything with silicone in it.Try using tack rags that contain bees wax

 

[Jim]

Re: Clear won\'t stick...again.

Hey Andy,Did you finish that bike yet?How about some more pics if you did,The chevelle is looking pretty bad these days,all stripped down,My wife said I made it "ugly".I told her it has to look bad before it can look good!I got all my metal work pretty much done, ready to spray epoxy primer but,the supply house ordered the wrong primer so,...I gotta wait again!Jim

 

[big stinkie]

Re: Clear won\'t stick...again.

Jim,

Yep, the bike is essentially finished. Just gotta hook up the oil lines, install the battery and make a few electrical connections. I'll stick a few pictures in here maybe later today or tomorrow.

Anxious to see the Chevelle! When you get it done I'll show the pictures to my old friend that had the 427 Chevelle so many years ago. That oughta bring back some memories.

10-4 on the wife and her comments. I show my wife a project when it's half done and she says, "That looks icky," and walks out of the shop. Women just don't appreciate the process - they only like the end product.

Have you/are you going to detail the engine compartment yet? I'd love to see some pictures from under the hood when you do.

Later,

Andy aka Big Stinkie

 

[Jim]

Re: Clear won\'t stick...again.

Andy,I got the fenders and hood off it now,It took me a full day to strip and POR the inners!Boy did that suck!I put a lower replacement patch on both the fenders too.I hope to have less than a qt of mud in it,it's amazing how many dings you can get in 36yrs.LOLI got most of the car to metal,just waiting on the epoxy primer,I chose to go with HOK stuff,I know how to use it.I'm keeping the small block for this summer,it has a recent rebuild and with some new paint,valve covers and cleaned up headers,it will be presentable again,sold the 396 and am kicking the idea of a 500ci Cadillac motor.Why? you ask,...500ft.lbs. of neck breaking torque under 5000 RPM Stock!.The swap don't sound too tuff,just gotta find the parts.Anyway,the car is coming along a little slower than planned,It's looking like early to mid summer before it's on the road.I can't wait!I have an awful lot of work to get it the way I want it.I'll get a recent photo up.I'd like to see that bike!Jim
This is where I was a couple of weeks ago,not much more done to it other than more paint removal,patched and POR'ed the inside part of the fenders,and alot less dust. Alot of grinding dust in this photo.Notice the original color on the cowl,lemonwood yellow Yuk!

 

[ezrider]

Re: Clear won\'t stick...again.

Jim, if bigger is better why not go with the Chevy 502 crate motor? i think there rated at over 500 hp, or i believe there is a 572 in the works rated at like 700 hp. but then you would have to tub it and stretch those new quaters you just put on, nothing wrong with Pro Street, is there. About 13 years ago i put a 500 Caddy in a 53 ford pick up and i personally wasnt impressed with the end results, i thought it was a little sluggish for that much CI

 

[TWISTED]

Re: Clear won\'t stick...again.

I've put a 403 from a trans-am into a 78 Regal that had a 231 v6. Forgot to beef up the front suspension and ended up destroying the regal and a Caddy that was at the red light in front of me. The motor survived and ended up in a GTO.

 

[Jim]

Re: Clear won\'t stick...again.

EZ,How's is going?The 502 is big bucks, which I don't have,I read you can build a stock or a little better Cad for alot cheaper.I like cheaper.Tell me more about your 53,I'm very intrested,What kind of tranny and rear gears?Everything I've read says it's the way to go,I'm not looking for a race car,just a good street rod.I'm in no big hurry,I have my hands full with the car right now,But I'd love to hear why you weren't impressed by all that torque I read a guys story about his 65chevelle ,he put a stock 500 and his first run was 13.06,That's pretty impressive from a stock motor in a heavy car.Jim

Twisted,Don't be telling me horror stories like that,I scare easily!LOL