Disaster!!!!!!!!!!!

[CNY.PT]

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/news.gif
Following all the rules does not guarantee success.
Painted the entire Jeep with PPG DBC color followed by 2 coats of PPG DBC500 blending clear and let it set overnight. The next day was tape out, a pounce wheel and a flame layout made that part easy with 3M fine line tape. Now the bad news, I tried to shorten my fillin time by using frisket(?) paper but when I tried to remove the waste, it left a sticky residue that would not come off and nothing I tried would touch it. I called my PPG dealer and asked for help, he suggested a product called "Ickee stickee", he claimed was guaranteed to work, NOT SO, it eat throught the DBC500 and made a huge mess. I am waited fro a call from PPG about how to correct the problem. Any thoughts???
CNY_PT

 

[Burnt]

I have never heard of Frisk sticking the well. My problem with the stuff is to get it to stick long enough to finish a job. I can see in my mind the kind of mess you are dealing with. Wish I could help..

 

[rex]

That really sucks.Rubbing alcohol might work but but I never used it over base,it might ruin it too.By the sounds of it you'll need to wipe the base off and start over /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/angry.gif Be carefull with the dry time on the 500 because that 24hrs open time is at 70degrees.Every 15deg. above that you cut the time in 1/2.If you are letting it sit overnight it wouldn't hurt to lightly grey scuffy it before adding the flames so you don't run out of time.I heard come of NY is still fairly cool so it wouldn't be a prob under those conditions.

 

[CNY.PT]

I double checked the spec sheet on DBC500, it doesn't say anything about a 24 open window. Should I scuff the entire area that I sprayed with 500 or just the flame area. I plan to wait until Monday, layout and spray the flames the same day and then top coat it as soon as possible. Will I be okay or should I scuff the entire Jeep?? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/headbutt.gif

 

[rex]

You're right,I just checked the sheet and it says nothing but treat it like the base color.Technically after 24hrs you're supposed to scuff and rebase but I never had an adhesion prob.Definately scuff everything,then do the flames.You need the scratches to open the surface back up so the next application can eat in and grab.Shouldn't take long to scuff down a Jeep,My buddy and I scuffed down his Mark VIII in about 30 minutes and we did the same procedure on his.How'd you get the glue off?I forgot to say prep solvent would work too.

 

[CNY.PT]

I actually created a huge mess by wiping it down with laquer thinner and letting it dry. Then, many, many sheets of 220, 320, 400, 600 wet/dry paper and finnaly it was ready to prime, repaint and re-clear. That's where I am right now and thanks for the help. I planned to layout the flames this morning but now I will scuff it first. No big deal but always nice to have the right information before you start. By the way, I took your set of practice flames and had it blown up from a 8 1/2 x 11 sheet to 2 feet x 3 feet, taped the 2 edges together and had a complete hood layout. A pounce wheel and blue chalk completed the layout. Thanks again for the help
CNY_PT

 

[TAZ]

Are you sure you used frisket paper?
I had a problem one time when my supplier gave me the wrong type material.
The incorrect type left the adhesive on the paint job just like it did you. The correct material sticks just enough and does not leave any adhesive behind.

 

[TAZ]

Take a piece of the 'frisket' put it onto an original paint job that has a factory finish, rub some reducer onto the frisket, let sit for a little while, then pull it off, see if it left any adhesive. If it did, you have the wrong type paper.
Not for sure if this would be a true test, but it would be a good start.

 

[alienboy]

Grease and wax remover would be my advise. Also, I have had the "glue residue" on one of my paint jobs that would not come off. I cleared over it and had no problems with it. I don't know if this was a different residue or not. Just my 2 cents....

 

[CNY.PT]

The stuff I used, I purchased from an art supply store. It was labeled as "frisket film" designed to be used with an air brush. Manufactured by Artool Company. All the "T's" were crossed and "I's" were dotted but "s**t happens". I can talk about it now that my blood pressure is back to normal but I was hot for a few days. I started over and will spray the flames on today.
I contacted PPG about this also, their response was:
A. using Non-recommended undercoat.
everything was PPG products including the reducer
B. creepage of solvent under the tape
jeep was bone dry when I started
C. too slow a reducer used in basecoat
reducer speed was recommended by dealer
D. too much basecoat
is 2 coats too much??
E. frisket film had too much adhesive
BINGO!!!!.
Thanks for all the help guys. I will post pictures as soon as the job is done.
CNY_PT /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/peace.gif

 

[Bornhard]

In the future use a product called transfer tape that is used for vinyl application. DO NOT use the clear/transparent transfer tape. The deal with the frisket and clear transfer tape is that it's a smooth plastic film with adhesive sprayed onto one side of it. The adhesive doesn't secure to the film real well and ends up on the surface you applied it to. I use to use it to apply vinyl to windows and would spend an hour removing sticky crap from the windows.

Sign supply websites will carry it & it will come in 2"-48" widths. It seems expensive, but it will cover areas quickly , holds up well & the roll seems to get you through a few jobs. The tape is somewhat translucent, so you can see blue fineline tape etc. I've noticed the better quality tapes handle solvent paints better and hold up better. The cheaper ones seems to get a fuzzy surface when spraying and the fuzzies get into your wet paint. I use about 12" width for most jobs and slice it down the middle when I need half it.

Frisket is notorious for leaving a marbilized pattern on surfaces and really unless you applied it over a well cured catalyzed clear, it's difficult to get rid of.
That frisket film is designed for t-shirt and paper illustrating. Some auto airbrush artist use it for airbrushing, but why chance it when there's better alternatives?

 

[voodoosurfer]

I work at a sign shop and bornhard is absolutely correct. I use to mask off my stuff all the time.

 

[CNY.PT]

can you give me the name of a supplier of the transfer tape?
FYI, I completed the ghost flame job today, without incident. It looks great and come out just as I hoped. I will post pictures as soon as I get it all back togther. Thanks gain for all your help
CNY_PT

 

[rex]

Glad eberything worked out this time.We all learn by mistakes but it really sucks working with paint.Beware of the paint companies answers to problems.All the answers you get are a reason for a problem but they can get bad about blaming you for a product failure.One example is PPG's NCP line of primers-they're no better than lacquer primer.I've tried everything including different guns and there's no way to stop the stuff from shrinking short of letting it sit for weeks before sanding and it still sucks up some.Of course the rep says it's application error but what he won't tell you is he won't use it on his work.I've found it's usually a 50/50 chance you get the right reason,it costs them when they have to supply you with the materials to redo it.

 

[kevsLX]

[ QUOTE ]
can you give me the name of a supplier of the transfer tape?


[/ QUOTE ]

I use Transferite brand, you can order it from www.ameriban.com (get the 1-800 number from the site)
Ships really fast.