Fall back...Plan 2

[Mac_Muz]

The rattle cans have driven me near to mad...

What spray gun on a 6 horse 26 gallon new air compressor would be right for painting a motor bike tank?

I have 2 1 quart guns, and bought a touch up gun today, that holds 9.75 ounces.... I have a pint of white base, and reducer for a clear peal that goes over the white, and a quart of clear to go over that...

I am attempting to save what you would see here..... Being the last 2 pics in this series have had a chemical reaction..

The weather has finally come around, so That I think I can move outdoors, and built a tent like spray booth...... I hope....
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/mac_muz15/lst?.dir=/Tank+Paint&.view=t

By the look of it I think you would need to copy the link and paste it to the address bar.... Mac

 

[rex]

Hey Mac.I can't really see the reaction you had in the photos,did it wrinkle or 'gator'(gator hide) on you?If it hasn't cured by now,don't waste the pearl and clear.Sorry to say but the best thing to do is sand it back down to sealer and start over with compatible materials.If it hasn't cured by now the clear will probably make it look 10X worse.It sounded like it was going to be alright for a bit,but it's going to keep on.Sorry for not stopping you earlier.I appologize for having you drag this out.Let us know what you want to do from here.I think your idea will look great,but I hate to see it ruined by a compatability prob.Don't feel bad though,I've had to strip an entire car because of a bad ingredient in a system that turned it into a nightmare.

 

[Mac_Muz]

Thanks Rex.... I had a computer failuer for 4 days so getting info in and out was a bad deal for me..

I am not a quiter.... This IS going to happen.

Just more time and money, and many things have changed.... I also posted the wrong pic. I will post the correct one.... You got it right though. It looked and felt like an alligator...

I will post a pic of where I am to so go here for another peek..

I will post a little fix toe the crown part, and the tank has been sanded dry with 220, and wet sanded with 400 right now as you will see it....

New tools and materials, and better weather.. I will try to make a tent like canpopy as I fear using this stuff in the shower... I will hope you stick around too!

OK, heres the tools.... 6 horse air compressor brand new with 20 minutes on it.
26 gallon tank, and rated to 135 psi/ 8.7 scfm @ 40 psi, and 6.7 @ 90 psi. I hope this will cut it, as this is the reason I bought it. A car is next....

I have a decent water trap, and bought a inline regulator with new fittings, also a air filter at the gun it is Orange plastic and was $13.00 for 2... I also bought a "GM" Mr. Good Wrench touch up gun... Not much info on "How To" set this up....spray pattern.

All the air line is new, but I bought 3 orange vinal ones at the time I bought the compressor, and a new Gates today of rubber as it moves easier... All are 3/8th" The vinals are 50' and the Gates is 25'.

Paints:
Dupont ChromaBase not sure what the specs are and see no number exatcly...the code is LOB9/D4. This should be a white dull base, and it gets according to the directions a 1 to 1 ratio mixed with 7175S "Basemaker" The can says VW/Audi champagne. This says to sand it with 400 grit.

This will be sprayed at 45 psi according to the lable, and I will mask off the face. So that will still show.

Heres a catch... After the white base dries, I will do the spikes, and then.....

Do this Chromabase mid coat code LOB9/D4 which should be a pearl MID COAT.. and says champagne PRL MET B/C. This says to not sand it.. but to mix it 1 to 1 with 7175S as before.

This will go over the face, and the entire tank.... I hope..... and should be see thru... I hope.....So Liberty looks out....

Then back to Testors for the blue field, and red stripes.... All of this is enamel and no laquers that killed me.....

After that is ready, I have "Select Clear" 496-00 which gets mixed with 483-78 activator as the last top coat...

Do you see any problems here?

Any hints would be welcome...

The down side to this is I think I can't use the shower.... My mask is a 3-M 6000, and it is not a + pressure mask.. I have bought a 12x 20 car canopy which is the best I can do to build a temporary booth. I have home type fans, but no filter.... I can get plastic and tape off the floor area to the sides. It will be slipper, and maybe hotter than I think.... Today it went to 80'F and yesterday it was maybe 40'F.... I hope to have the temp about 68'F when I paint..

Maybe a little sun dance mixed with no wind and bugs is in order eh?
Well off to take a pic and post a pic in 30 minutes.... 5:15 pm here EST... Mac

 

[rex]

Hey Mac,
I haven't messed with DuPont for years,but if I remember right the Basemaker is just reducer.It was a neat system because you could base back over the clear for a fix,but I always saw it.I would have what you now have in Testors made in the Chroma base to have everything the same.I think the compressor will do fine for the bike,but I don't think it'll keep up for a car.The plastic moisture trap at the gun-don't let the hose put much pressure on it,like jerking the hose or having it catch on a pass.I haven't had it happen luckily but I've seen these break.What a *#$*@! mess.Your system sounds good,but there's a another filter that works great for the final trap.I think Motorguard makes it and the filter is nothing more than the sandpaper buttwipe you find in a convenience store bathroom.Before you start painting start at the compressor and drain everything to the gun.Hopefully someone here with current DuPont knowledge will step in with advice.

 

[Mac_Muz]

Oh, I do hope the compressor will do the car.

Would I see the in line gauge drop? If I do what then?

When I do the tank I will watch it.... The way I set these items up I can move them around. I could have gun, inline regulator, and then the filter (orange) and the water trap can be located any place from at the compressor to near the working end of the line.

One book I have says to place the trap 25' or more from the compressor, and to run the hose up and back down?????

If I spray in the shower... the shower is on the 2nd floor, so the hose would exit the shed at ground level, and I could put the trap below the washroom window, then drop another air line to it. That 2nd line would rise about 14' up to the washroom.

This has to work out this time... If not I am likely to get miffed, and do it again! I won't quit. I don't expect professional results but ...not bad either...

I will test just a little bit of each as I did before..... which worked out to a point.

I have not seen any other inline filters.. I don't think I can break it in the washroom, as I paint on my hands and knees there, and spin the tank on a lazy susan.

Doing the car I may hang the hose higher so it does not drag on the ground, and get caught.... which is a sure bet if I do drag it....

Before I can paint the car it needs a bit of repair to the body. I hope I can do the car in 1 month, and move on to a K-10 chevy... That is last for big work.... After that I will be pretty good or hang it all up, and get my wifes cars touched up elsewhere...

We have road salt here, and it eats cars.. All are 48-85 models, but for the bike a 81...

Being a X wrench I like the 85's for the type of injection Bosche "CIS" injection. I don't feel like dropping 20+K on any car anyway... I'ld rather go fishing than work.Mac

 

[rex]

The compressor might work for the car as long as you can keep the pressure you need to get through 1 coat,then let it build up for the next.A big car could be a prob.The tank will do fine.The deal with the compressor outlines is like this:Angle the line upward as you go away from it and put 'drops' in it.A drop is where you come straight up out of the main line a foot or so and make a 180 down.Your airline plugs in at the heighth you want and there's a drain at the bottom.The theory is that the inclining line lets the moisture drain back to the tank to be drained.The drops work because the moisture has to pump up first,so you get less in the line.Another theory is slope the line down away from the compressor to a final drain but you still have drops.Not getting into that debate.Your best setup would be to put the moisture trap where the gun hose plugs in(run at least a 25' line from the compressor to the trap),and use the orange trap between it and the gun-most screw it to the gun between the hose and gun or regulator.When it comes to the car,remember the more airline used the more pressure and cfm drop you get.If I had a doubt about the air supplyI'd do a dry run of a coat with the gun before I mixed the paint.If I couldn't maintain enough pressure I didn't mix the paint.

 

[Mac_Muz]

I did a dry run with the tank in the shower.. Nothing at all in the gun..... I have 2 - 50' sections some of which is coiled in the tool shed then the line lays on the ground goes upto a water spigot where it is wire tied, and drops again several inches to climb 14' dead straight up. to the inline regular and the orange bulb filter and the touch up gun. I set the regulator on the compressor to 80, and can get 60+ athe gun.. the orange filter is between the gun and the inline regulator.. I wonder what the drop is for that bulb.... maybe I should reverse the bulb and inline filter?

I also am wondering about reversing the window box fan? Perhaps I can find a furnace filter medium to tape on the box fan, and re-tape the fan in the window? Would taht be a good idea? There is a opening skylight in the shower stall.......????? Mac

 

[Mac_Muz]

I sprayed a coat! Not to bad... saw a few places that I did not get sanded out well, and i see that I missed a bit a small bit I think of that laquer. Grrrrr but i sanded that out after the first coat, and left white still.

I hope that the enamel dries and seals. The instructions say to shoot 3 coats then sand, but I choose to sand out dust as well.

I rearranged the gun so the orange filter is first then the inline pressure regulator, and finally the gun.. I find it difficult to work with this long device, but I can do it.

The flash time is 15 to 30 minutes, but I have waited for longer. I hope that it is not critical to add more paint at the 30 minutes mark.

I intend to come back here more than once this evening. So if anyone wants to lend advice till 9 or 10 pm Eastern Standard Time, I will be on the look out between coats.

I find the info on the gun wrong... it says it will hold 9.75 oz, but with 8 it leaks closing the top.

I think I have the pattern set about right... I shot at news print paper that was blank, and it was hard to see white on off white..... I did not get any runs, so that's a good thing.... I want to get all the base coats on tonight because I worry about the Badger Film mask over liberty....... The first time I used that the glue had a reaction, and I don't need that head ache too.... Mac 6:18 pm

 

[Mac_Muz]

I guess thats not a laquer problem. I am getting a wrinkle where laquer never was. perhaps too much paint to fast? shot 2nd coat will sand out the new wrinkle in 30 min about 7:15 to 7:30

 

[Mac_Muz]

Oops forgot about the sun...it went down and so did the temp.. I can't heat the area now as the fan has been filtered and blows in.. done fer the night, but will check in every so often.... Mac

 

[rex]

Hey Mac.
The way the lines come into the house should be fine,but put the orange filter back between the moisture trap and the gun,and use the fan for exhaust,not to pump air in.I think the wrinkling is coming from one of 2 probs.If you're clearing and basing another color too soon it will wrinkle-let the clear set overnight at least,and don't blow just a coat because you need the full millage of all the coats to sand and retopcoat.If you're just using the base,it's probably eating up the initial stuff,but if you're doing major layering you might be pushing the window (or recoat time)by the time you get that far into it the 3rd or so layer.

 

[Mac_Muz]

This looks better after drying...... That was just 2 coats of base paint.
The first had some small wrinkles above the head.

The 2nd coat shot after 1 hour had the same wrinkels below the face where laquer never was.

I got a surprize too. I thought the 1 pint cans would have 1 pint of paint, but they seem to have 1/2 pint... I commented in the store that the cans felt light.

Since the touch up gun info sheet said it was a 9 3/4 ounce gun I made 8 oz of paint up, and stirred that in the gun can with a cut down paint stick, but then when I set the top in place the paint over flowed a bit...

The next time I made paint for the 2nd coat, I up 2.5 + 2.5 for a total of 5 oz which did not spill. This gun won't pick up the last 1/8th" of paint in the bottom of the gun... Seem a bit much to me.

I read that positive pressure will get less dust on the job, so I set the fan to blow in with a furnace filter... I get dust..

I will try blowing air out next try. I read that this tends to suck dust from every corner of the room, so I don't understand it either way......

After checking the water trap at the end of a 50' hose I find no water at all. Then there is a 25' hose the orange ball, inline regulator (so the air pressure is read after the ball and then the gun).......

I have not shot any mid coat, or clear coat yet. It is my understanding that base coat goes on 3 coats, then mid coat for 3 coats, and then the clear last. Is this wrong? Should each base get a clear? and each mid coat also get a clear? Mac

 

[Mac_Muz]

Damn the dust!!! I have tried fan out, and fan filtered in and dust and more dust.. How do I kill the dust? The room seems spotless, but pull that gun trigger and I get dust. I have vacuumed, and blown the area totally 10 times or more. I cover my body with well shaken rags.... I have misted the room with a plant spray bottle to try to sink dust.

DUST is taking over the world as I know it!

I am about ready to get a gallon of "Claridon" to get that dust..... Dust be damned... maybe a dance will do it? Do painter do a dust dance ? Lets have it!!

 

[Mac_Muz]

I am finding 2 oz of base + 2 oz of 7175S which makes 4 oz total in more than enough to shoot 1 whole coat. I just did my 3rd coat of base coat... No more of anything. This makes me think that 1.75 of each for the mid coat will do the tank, and maybe 2+2 would be just enough to do side covers too at the same shooting.

Still fighting dust, but i got luck I think last shot, and did not see any land. I am sure upon close inspection that dust will be adheared to the paint though....

I can't wait to see the mid coat, but that will have to wait untill the spikes are back.

I think I better have a peek at the mid coat, to see that it is more of a clear pearl. Liberty must show thru the mid coat.

Hmmm..... the mid coat looks very solid in the can... not so solid on a paint stick though..... I wonder? i wish someone would jump in here about now Rex as you stated you had not used these paints in some time...

[ 04-19-2002: Message edited by: Mac_Muz ]

 

[ezrider]

Mid coats such as candys and pearls are on the transparient side it some times takes more coats than you think to get the effect your after

 

[Mac_Muz]

That will be good then.... I want to see Liberty from under the mid coat..and eventually under red stripes...

I have saved the original liberty with a mask. The mask is not right for this use, but is saved what I wanted, but for peeling up some silver burnished, which I fixed once before and will fix again.... Maybe by November my bike will ready.... Last weekend was what I had hoped to end this project, but that did not happen.... Tomorrow I will replace the spikes, and do the fix. With that done I can go on to mid coats.... thanks for the reply...Mac

 

[txturbo]

I just wanted to pass on a technique I used to eliminate water in the air line. I had major water problems in my garage until I did this. I'm in south texas and humidity is a major problem here. I bought a 20 foot piece of galvanized 3/4" metal threaded pipe and mounted it on the wall sloping back toward the compressor with a 90 turning down, then a tee,then a 6" nipple, then a valve so I can drain the line.Off the tee I attached my rubber line from the compressor.From the valve on the compressor I have my regulator,then a short piece of rubber air line which goes up to the pipe on the wall and attaches to the tee.On the other end of the pipe I have a 90 turned up, then a 6" nipple, another 90,a 3" nipple,another 90 turned down, and then the quick coupler for the air hose.Since I did this I have no water problems at all.The metal pipe stays cool and condenses the moisture out of the warm compressed air before it reaches your air hose.This condensate flows back toward the compressor end and collects in the 6" nipple below the tee and above the drain valve.Best $30 I ever spent.