final sand and buff

[abkrdude]

Just finished painting a tank including design using rattle can paint. These were what was available for me to use as I am limited in supplies and equipment. Thing is, it looks great, I had my troubles along the way, one was that I was not happy with the clear coat I first used. I wet sanded between coats and got it looking good until that point. I was disappointed. I finally went and got a can of hobby paint, Testors High Gloss Enamel Overcoat. Now I have a great shine. So is it recomended still to final sand and than buff for a final step? If so, what kind of materials do you recomend? Same as the base coat / clear coat that everyone talks about?
Thanks in advance for any/all advice.

 

[abkrdude]

additional note: I planned it out to have a strip right down the middle of the top of the tank left plain. This to allow for a tank chap, anyone know about custom leathercraft?
I wish to do it myself as well, so any guidance there would be appreciated too.

 

[abkrdude]

I got impatient waiting for a reply to this one, so after a week, I went out and spent 30 bucks on some rubbing compound. Now I lost my shine and I wonder if I will get it back by going to a finer compound or actually I am thinking maybe I should wet sand to clean off the compound and do a new coat of clear enamel? Any suggestions? Did I wait to long to buff and the paint had already hardened too much? Should I wait for a week or two before proceeding any further? I'm confused....

Oh, and a thanks to a Jim who replied on another topic (leather). I thought maybe that topic would spark some interests in some other possiblities to dress up a new paint job, like isignias, hood ornaments, chrome panels, and I even recently saw a site for magnetic clear protective panels for sport bike gas tanks to protect against belt buckle rub. Any thoughts? Maybe another forum that someone might suggest?

 

[TAZ]

If it was shiny, then you took some rubbing compound to it, most likely it is because you will need to go to a finer polish compound and then hand polish, or you are trying to hand rub it. If this is the case, you should really use a machine buffer to do so (not an attachment on a drill).

I guess one other reason is because you are probably using a one part paint (not catalyzed), therefore, it will take some time to dry properly.

Basically you need to work your way backwards. Use rubbing compound, then polish compound, then foam glaze, then hand glaze. You should also change pads in between. I recommend using foam pads versus wool pads (haven't used a wool pad in quite some time!)

 

[abkrdude]

Scott, thanks for the help. You are correct in that I am applying a one part (rattle-can paint). I did use a medium cut buffing compound (Yellow bottle of stuff, salesman sold me, said it is equivalent to the 3M stuff?). He did say something about that if I wanted to take it even further there was some bottle of stuff finer? I guess I was expecting more shine from the first buffing step? Will the hand glaze take it to the shine? Without expense of several more bottles and buff heads for the in-between steps? I would rather put more work into it than money right now, so if it simply just takes more effort I would jump to the last step if I can? Thanks.

 

[Jim]

abkrdude,There really is no way around it,In order to get that great shine,you must go in steps,from course to fine so to speak.The rubbing compound has bigger grit and makes deeper scratches,(you need to remove those scratches in order to get that shine,light doesn't reflect well off scratches)now maybe you can use a swirl mark remover until you remove those scratches,then hand glaze.
Hand glaze is kinda like wax as you will have to reapply when it wears off.This is how any sanding or metal polishing works,Course to take out the major flaws,then progressively finer and finer until it really shines.It's worth the time and effort.Sounds like you would like to keep the costs down but,3M products really are worth the money.P.S. This can be done by hand too,just takes longer.

 

[Mac_Muz]

abkrdude, we are about in the same boat. I don't know how far along you are... I am using some Testor's paints and clears too.

I am not at the clears stages yet... I am going to test this clear with gasoline on card board..... I hope it won't melt, or act up...... If you try this test please post or email me..... I am still working on the tank to fair it out. I am a novice, and after seeing flaws in my bondo have gone back to step 1.... priming again. I removed the emblems on the tank for the patriotic design I am attempting with 4 colors.

I am also having the devil's own time with dust. It does not matter what I do. My conditions are primitive at best. I am ready to buy a lazy susan to help me paint in the shower!!!! I have been wet sanding sitting on my bed! I have a ice fishing sled made of plastic, and I wet sand inside that!

Right now it is very windy and about 25'F outside.... I am at a loss as to how to get anything dust free.... As soon as I tack cloth the surface more junk comes.. I try to paint on a cold porch, with a fan blowing out a window...let the paint tack up and bring it inside where there is a little heat... I think 1 more shot of primer and sanding will have the emblem area good to go.

I think the pro's have a hard time helping rattle can guys, as they know this is a tuff way to go, and it can be hard for them to say so, knowing we can't get a good place and a set of good tools, and skills all at once.
I understand that feeling as I am a X Foreign Car Tech and many times I have told someone "How To" and come to find the guy has a screw driver and locking pliers made in China... He then goes about the "How To" and the ruins the job, and the tools, and causes permanent damage...... Mac

 

[abkrdude]

I will post what I find out about the durability of the Testors clear I used (when I find out?). I had bought the last can off the shelf (small can), used it while hoping to find more supply. There doesn't seem to be another store around here that carries any more of the stuff?? I have been to hobby stores, and found limited supplies. Might have to go to Testors direct and find a supplier from mail order or something? I can understand the base coat / clear coat theory, but it doesn't make much sense for small jobs, multi-color, so I think we need to fall back on something else for a clear top coat, whatever that might be?
I can also relate to make shift settings. I was lucky I guess on getting my paint done on relatively low dust days. I do have some that I collected in my top coat and was hoping to buff them out (one reason I wanted to final buff). For wet sanding I layed a towel down in the bath tub and put my tank on it, with a hand held shower turned way down, I wet sanded. It was also interesting trying to buff the tank. I probably looked like a kid wrestling a greased pig or something, trying to hold the tank in between my knees and with one hand steady it and hold the buffer with another. It takes two free hands to run the buffer... think I am going to put the tank on the bike to do the last final buffing.
This is great, now I am beginning to build a custom seat as well. Just experimenting with different materials to use as a base to mold around the frame and fender.....

 

[rex]

Abkrdude
Don't recall seing this post before.Guess what,I used to build models and used Testors(watch the yellow,it's like candy instead of paint).I had one that was buggered up and buffed it by hand.If I remember right I used Meguire's paste cleaner/wax.I got it for my car but it dries so fast and sticks that I had to do very small areas at a time.Worked great for that though.Sand and reclear what you have if you can,then just nip the dirt nibs with 2000.This stuff is soft compared to car paint,so you have to be gentle with it.If hand work doesn't do it,try a power buffer at low speed and very lightly,don't heat it up or it'll get softer.I'd say try toothepaste but it's even too abrasive.Good luck.

 

[abkrdude]

I might be able to post pics soon, but I went to put on my tank and when I did, old scrathes on the tank mount cover stuck out so bad against the new paint on the tank that I took the covers off to paint them too.

As far as the paint, I tried Duplicoat, and some Krylon, but like the way the Testors went on the best. Too bad they were the little mini cans. I didn't do flames, did sort of a modern splash design and used black base, with purple and blue pearls. Now just thinking of a small design for the front fender and I will be done?

 

[rex]

Kawaz
Before they started galvanizing the steel bondo stuck better to bare steel.It sticks now,but not as well and alot of times the edge won't feather all the way.The newer bondos are lighter weight and stick great to a sound sanded finish or epoxies.Finishing with a 2 part putty (basically really fine bondo)helps prevent some of the soak in of the primer too.

 

[guest01]

My interest is peaked now. I'm planning a rattlecan paint job with flames, and would like to see some pics of any rattlecan paintjobs, along with info on what brand, etc. I'm leaning toward duplicolor right now, the basecoat black,with blue or red flames, then the clearcoat. I'm planning to use all duplicolor paints to minimize compatibility problems. I've also noticed some guys are bondoing over primer. Back in the old days, you had to use bondo on bare metal ONLY. Is something different?

 

[Mac_Muz]

abkrdude, Wal-mart carries testors.. Maybe you can get more there? Mac

 

[abkrdude]

Yep, I had finally found some of the clear that I have been using last night at Wal Mart, then read your post this morning. I had pretty much decided to ruff up my tank again, to get out any petro's(?) left behind from the buffing compound and will clear my tank again. Hopefully I am not making a big mistake, but I am not happy with what I ended up with buffing it. Like I mentioned on another post, it looks polished but lacks the real deep shine.

 

[Mac_Muz]

abkrdude, You might want to wash the tank with dish detergent before sanding, or risk grinding petro's as you call it into the paints...... then sand.... lemme know what happens..
i have what I would call 2 coats of clear on now, and will sand that today to smooth it out. If white paint come thry sanding it will be more clears...... if not a I have made a mask film of "Liberty" with no spikes yet... those will be a the 3rd templet.

I have made a jpeg image of the original art. That is 90.9K and not the exact colors but as close as I can get from a puter program... If you would like to see her, lemme know... Mac

 

[abkrdude]

Mac, of course I would like to see your layout. Does this system allows you to email me direct? If so, send it on over. The steps to get to your final design sure sounds interesting. I had a much more complex layout for mine when I first started. Was going to do a dragon in multi-shades of purples and greens swooping down upon a pin-up girl. Did the layouts on the 'puter, but then got worried about paints and durabilities for the acrylics that I was going to use with my air-brush. With the many different levels/shades of colors throughout my design, I decided to just drop back for now and paint a more modern contemporary design. I have a second (damaged) tank that I am going to restore and work on next. That one I will probably do the mural on when I have more time to dedicate. As it is, I am doing some other stuff to the bike as well. Anyway,until then, happy painting....

 

[Mac_Muz]

I can't find an address for you, so I guess you can't find one for me...
send anything to mac_muz15@hotmail.com


Include you handle from here so I can tell is is you, and I will reply with the templet design such as it is.....(pretty good) I might like yer opinion too...

I will be busy later, when the weather comes around with my car and my truck; both needing body work and paint. I found a bondo product that I can feather the edges of, which I have never been able to do with "Bondo" So things for my car are looking up... The truck is a no brainer so far as I am concerned. it is a 84 chevy with a Mr.Good Wrench 4 bolt main, and Webber 4 barrel, and headers, but a "Plow Truck" So long as it can take a sticker I don't care what it looks like

Part of my problem is winter.... I have a new 26 gallong 6 horse compressor, and 2 paint guns, and even a water trap...not that I know how to use them well...... Once I painted dumpsters! LOL!

I was a wrench, not a body paint guy.... At one point I worked for a body shop, but my job there was electrical. To put back in working order what painters had taken apart. They made a mess of the wiring fast, and painted it too!

Then there was the restoration of a "Willies" that had a new stainless steel dash, with all the wires the same color yellow. That dash looked like dish washing machine in a resurant in my opinion. The funny thing was after I was done with the dash and the whole thing had been painted, I went on top for some over head running lights, but the whole top was still in red primer! Some how the painter's missed the whole top! Mac

 

[Mac_Muz]

abkrdude, as you know I am a few steps behind you... i found something that might help....maybe... anyway I needed a break.

I had 2 coats of clear on from about 8 sprayings as the light is Hard so i stayed light with the coatings.
This produced orange like looking surface as you know.. So being that I am not good I sanded with ,1200 grit, and did not like much what I got, so re-sanded with 2,000 grit, and it was a little better.

I went to dry with paper towels, and things got better the harder I rubbed. I am not sure at all if there is any clear on the tank now, but it seems fairly shiney, and ready for a clear again... Mac
ps: if you just came down there is a reply just above from me...

 

[Mac_Muz]

Happy Easter!

Today I was able to cut one of the stencil masks I made of Liberty, and get 2 coats of "White Icing" on the tank.

To refresh: The tank emblems were removed, and the tank was chemically stripped. At that time "Kreem" was installed. The bare steel on the out side was cleaned with a wash of "Navy Jelly" and the factory dents under the emblems was bondoed in.

The tank was sanded to 200 grit. And then it was primed and sanded to 400 grit. At that point I sprayed on a white gloss, and saw dents that primer could fix. So the tank was sanded to almost all primer again, and the dents were fixed.

Then a white gloss was used for a bright under coat, and that was cleared with about 3 good coats. Sanding out orange peel each time.

My wife drew a picture if "Liberty" for me the face and crown. I bought badger masking film, and made 2 masks.

Today I was able to cut one of the stencil masks I made of Liberty, and get 2 coats of "White Icing" on the tank.

With these 2 coats of white icing, I might get away with just clearing over that, and start the blue field with stars this week!

I found a plasti-kote laquer that seems to be ok with plasti-kote acrilic enamel clear.
This laquer has a haologram effect, and I HOPE sandwiched between coats of clear that it will high light the spikes on Liberty's crown, and maybe the stars. You don't see that high light in all "Lighting" conditions, but it is a nice effect.

I have made several test batches to see if lifting occurs, and so far feel lucky.....

So this is where I am now....... Mac