Flames not adhering to base coat.

[Drekk]

Hey everyone, how's it going? New to the forums, happy I found a place where I can ask questions to experienced painters!

I've just recently got into custom painting and I've been having some issues.

In the pictures I've posted you can see where the black paint has peeled off the flames when I un-masked them, and you can see that the green paint, mainly on the tips of the flames, has peeled off the base coat. I've done two paint jobs and the same thing has happened both times. It's probably something obvious that I'm screwing up, but I can't figure it out. Also, the adhesive from the masking tape is leaving lines on the base coat, I'll try to put up a picture where you can see that well. Should I be using an intercoat clear over the base coat before masking and painting the flames?

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[TAZ]

Welcome to the forum!
In the second picture, what is the black that it outlining the flames? I've never seen black tape.
Looks like you laid out the flames with the black tape, masked up the tank with 1 1/2 or 2" tape, then cut it on top of the black tape?

Also, how long is it between the time you sprayed the base and you sprayed the base on the flames?

Is all paint used 'basecoat' type paint?

 

[Drekk]

Thanks man! and thanks for the response.

The tape I used to outline the flames is actually 3M 1/8th inch blue vinyl tape. I'm assuming it looks black because of the lighting in the picture. You are correct about the procedure though. It was probably a couple hours after I sprayed the base coat, and yes it was all 'base coat' type paint. I bought it from a local automotive painting garage/supply store. The guy at the paint shop said I had a 24 hour window before the base coat would cure and wouldn't bond to the second layer of paint.

 

[TAZ]

Sounds like you used the correct or good materials.
The only reason I can think off is you put the 'flame' paint on too thick and it 'bridged' across the tape. Once you peeled the tape up, this pulled some of the paint off.
The reason it makes me think this is the possible reason is because most of your peeling is on the flame tips.
Most painters will double or triple up the painting on the tips which makes it thicker on the tips than anywhere else on the flame job.

 

[obstahoe]

When your done spraying wait like 5 mins then remove the fine line tape it will prevent ridging and a hardline too good luck or you can do it right away up to you

 

[tomsteve]

When your done spraying wait like 5 mins then remove the fine line tape it will prevent ridging and a hardline too good luck or you can do it right away up to you

along with that, peel the tape from the wide end of the flames to the tip.peel the tape back on itself and at an angle away from the flame.

 

[Drekk]

Thanks for the responses obstahoe and tomsteve.

So it's better to wait less time before un-masking rather than waiting longer? That may be where I caused issues for myself. I don't remember exactly how long I waited to un-mask, but I'm pretty sure it was a bit longer than 5 minutes. Maybe the paint dried too much which caused it to stick to the tape and peel up with it. Also, I did lay the black in there pretty thick. The combination of those two things may very well be the problem. But if that is the issue, then how would people do big projects that take hours and then un-mask without any problems?

 

[obstahoe]

Well the way I mask cars is backwards I put the fine line tape on last so when I'm done spraying I just pull the fine line tape and it just lets the paint settle with no hard edges and etc and if anything needs to be resprayed again just put fine line tape back on don't have to pull out new plastic or paper

 

[TAZ]

I've done both letting the paint sit, or removing the tape right after painting with no issues. Quite a few times I've even let the paint sit overnight before removing the tape. Mainly because it was the end of the day
BUT in your case, I would say it's a combination of removing too quickly with too much paint.

@obstahoe
I would think you do this for graphic jobs on cars. Doing motorcycles in flames or graphics would be almost impossible to do with masking tape first.

 

[Drekk]

Yeah I couldn't see it working out too well doing the 1/8th inch vinyl fine line tape last when you're laying out flames. The whole reason for using it first is to allow for the correct contour of the lines cause it's so thin it's easily workable. Unless you were to mask the whole tank and then lay out the flames with the fine line tape over the masking tape and then take a razor and cut along the masking tape on the inside edge of the fine line and peel away the masking tape that would be the inner part of the flames... seems like a lot more work though, and a huge pain in the ass. Could the heat/humidity have anything to do with what happened on my tank? I actually painted that tank in the middle of the summer...