Mac's Lament

[Mac_Muz]

Mac\'s Lament

Ok, I have begun what I said I would do this past Spring, but work, and living got in the way.....

The car is a 1984 Volvo Turbo, that runs like a champ.

I am going to fix this car for the next 5 years, and want to do it well. I have only a tent to work in. Since this is new hampster USA, I am racing mother nature.

I bought a millermatic mig welder model 135/175 with the M-10 gun. I have come to find I will need to cut off the breezes to weld. And I know to more or less cut the breezes to paint.

I took 24 pics or so, but only posted 7 so far.

http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/mac_muz15/lst?.dir=/Volvo+Repair&.src=ph&.view=

I have 3 main problems. And I have mulitudes of other problems that I must come to understand.

Of the 3 mains probs, I am not sure what must be done to get a long lasting repair.

Under the tailgate is hard to get in a picture. There seems to be layers of rusted metal there, and I am not sure what to do.

2nd is a entire corner of a door gone, and again I am not sure what to do.

3rd is a problem many Volvo wagons get at the rear corner of the rear side window.

I don't even know why that happens, so fixing it is hard to see. I don't want to just patch it, but I rather want to stop what ever is the cause, and then patch it.

I know how to make paper templates and then make steel patches.

I can gas weld and arc weld, but only used a mig welder 2 times , and that was years ago. I can do this...... I will do this....

In the album you will see other pics. One of them shows the fender gone. This fender has cancer, and was hit as well. I have a brand new replacement fender for it.

This comes under the mulitple problems... As this has a black coating from the factory, which has been scratched. Also a part of the fender is not on the new one. I just saw that yesterday!

The old one will have to be used for this part of the front corner where the marker light is held. The old one is in good shape, so cutting it off and welding are all that are needed, and I understand that part.

What I do not understand is, that the auto parts guy said I must shoot non-sandable sealer and not use a primer on the new fender.

I will be using 4'x4' sheet steel for all other repairs, and so I wonder about the sealer(s)?

I want as much steel in each patch as is possible, and then only to use what ever glass products as needed to seal off the steel.

I want to use some of the oxidents to convert rust to a more or less stable material in some places, and do not know if body putty like chromalite will stick, since the metal would not be bare steel.

There was a factory roof rack that damaged with time the roof, and this will not go back on the car ever! It was causing a leak when it rained, that was on the same side (driver) that the window "problem" is on. perhaps that is the cause of the window problem?

Fun stuff.....

I will be keeping track of the project with a digital camera....

I have not decided the new color yet, and input can be made. (Tend to like Dodge blue, and swamp golden green by GMC, Ford, and Subarru)

I do have blue carpets though, and the rest is black inside.

This will be a color change even if it stays close to this blue now, but I may wish to do some "Classy Something" to make the car a bit different from the ordinary volvo cage that it is...... Somehow I don't see flames on a volvo... My taste is perhaps conservative.

I am not sure if there is a way to make the carpets all black, which might lend to some other colors on the outside.

I will be painting the door edges, and the rear wagon parts that show as done.....

Scott, EZ, and Rex helped me with my bike, which came out great, but did not have all this rust from New England winters, and salts which are 2 types here...

I think both Sodium and Calcium clorides are used here as each town sees fit.... I may have the names wrong, but one is like "ROCK SALT" and the other is white with rounded edges, and is also used in summer on dirt roads to collect moisture aiding in keeping down road dust....

Thanks in advance....... Mac

 

[Deacon Blues]

Re: Mac\'s Lament

Perhaps some Viking/Scandanavian runic art would be appropriate?

 

[kevsLX]

Re: Mac\'s Lament

I'm no body work expert so I'll leave that to the other folks, but have you ever seen Ford's Bright Atlantic Blue? Gawd that's a sweet color. Dodge's Intense Blue pearlcoat is another nice blue.
If it was my Volvo I don't think I'd do any graphics on it, just a nice clean paint job, but that's entirely up to you.
Oh, and you know there's a guy up your way that makes a kit to swap an EFI 5 liter Mustang motor into those Volvos. That would be a fun ride

 

[Mac_Muz]

Re: Mac\'s Lament

Deacon! Hi! I did not know you were coming here... This place is great if you need help painting..... If it were not for this place, and the help here, my bike would be flat black, with a "Band Aid" and in yellow letters "Ouch".

I had not thought of "Runes"...... Hmmmmmm... I wonder....... Twinning serpents done with a bit O' taste...... Hmmmmm. Maybe you have some thing there......

KevsLX,

I have seen the Dodge blue pear, but don't think I have seen the other blue... "atlantic Blue eh? I might go to a paint supply as soon as things dry up and ask about it...

I don't trust the wind now, and my truck is tied to that tent!..... That leaves my bike which never sees a single drop of water if I can prevent it.

I doubt that I will be swapping out a good turbo engine, but I would like more info on that swap.

I am looking for hard to find items, Not really offered for Volvo.... I am getting poly suspention bushings for the rear end. All of them.... I am still hunting for air shocks, as I want to pull a dorry on a trailer.... Some trips might be 5 hours one way with out a trailer, plus the car full of things for 10 days out. (Not possible or desireable to hit any store once out)... One of the heavier things in the car would be a 1700's circa swivel gun, at about 35-40 lbs.

Of course that alone is next to nothing, but with a steel lined box full of shot and powder there is another 60 lbs or so.

Food for a week (maybe for 2) clothing for mild winter conditions ect. etc.. muskets and the like and what goes with them....

I might like to look into the costs of such a swap....

A rough guess is engine with harness, and ecu about 4 grand....?? I wonder what adapter plate(s)?

.......General whats going on and question......

I have been cutting and grinding since I posted the pics... last night it rained gangbusters!!! It is still raining, and water made it right thru the new tarp! nothing really in the way of damage, but there is light rust on all the grinding now.

I have decided to make a stainless steel plate on the upper rocker panells, which is covered by the doors, and a drain out towards the rear tires. The drain will likely be a screwed on plate of SS as well. I can flush out and blow out crud that way.

Once the rain stops I will go grind again today, and maybe I have one full day of grinding and cutting left before I begin to rebuild each part.

Of course sanding the car will come after that.

The main problems are still those listed above, but also the hood now had become more of a problem.

The front vertical edge had blisters of rust, and after grinding there are holes right thru.

There is no way I can replace the hood now, and so will have to fix it.

These are small holes, maybe 1/2" x 2" or so...

I need to know if that rust coating will allow a body filler to stick on top of the coating, after the coating dries..... Thanks for the replies.

Mac

 

[Jim]

Re: Mac\'s Lament

Mac,You certainly have your hands full with this one,But,you seem very motivated,that's a good thing.Here in Indiana,we have a major salt problem also,every day over freezing,I try to get to the manual car wash and pressure wash my vehicles,concentrating on the nooks and cranies where salt can sit.If you keep those curves around windows and on the roof clean,water and salt won't sit there,they act as gutters for your car,I think that's what happen around your window.Maybe the seal was in the way or factory sealant or maybe just debrise.As far as the rust converting brush on stuff,i would only use it as protection,not to solve a rust problem.I can't see that stuff lasting under paint.I would also look on the internet for some used panels from some southern states,where salt isn't used.Around here,people change the door skin rather than fix the corners.It's easier to change the entire panels than repair them.If you leave any rust even little pits,you'll be redoing this car again in the future,and don't forget to check for rust under those rubber seals around windows and doors.If your set on repairing the panels,use a die grinder with a cuttting wheel to cut out past the rust so you can add new metal.If you can do the body work in one summer and use a primer/sealer on the car,you'll be better off too.leaving untreated metal until you paint is not a good idea.If one of the other guys don't have a better idea about your new fender,I would strip it and prime it with a primer/sealer.I can't tell from the TG picture but,try to find a used panel and weld it in after you cut out the old one. You'll be happy with your new mig welder,you can fill in small holes and your new metal seems, grind them down without much filler,good choice.When you weld,just stitch it about 1 1/2 inches all the way around when it cools,go back and stitch some more and so on til you finish and keep the heat down as low as possible or you will warp your panels.I was talking to the guy at an autobody supply house by me and he said the new thing is to epoxy the panels together with a special expoxy made just for that instead of welding,maybe Rex,EZ, or Scott could tell you more about that.If you can find a color you like that's close to original,you won't have to mess with the interior and will match the jambs and under hood and those spots you can't get to much better,I agree with kevsLX,the classy look is the way to go on your Volvo.A nice paint job with clean chrome is very attractive.Hope my input helps a little,Good Luck!
P.S. You know,if you mounted that swivel gun on the hood,you would never be stuck in traffic again!

 

[Mac_Muz]

Re: Mac\'s Lament

Well, I just got inside from more cutting and more grinding.....

I rinsed out the rockers, and discovered the venting just below the windshield drains all the way into the rockers! There were leaves, and dusty bricks from Afganistan in there!

I am going to open that mess up and dam off the rockers far forward, so that only a little water can reach the entire rocker, and make a drain forward more.

I will also make the regular drains bigger, like maybe garden hose bigger, so they can be flushed out easier.

I will kill the rust as best I can, and make a use engine oil and roofing cement coating after the car is painted..

I will flood the rockers by stopping up the drains, and pouring old oil in them.

That will sit for a day or two, and then I will pour in oil and asphault. In time that may begin to sort of dry, and then I will add more with less oil, untill I coat the entire area....

I am going to make more than just 2 covered access holes, so I can get this mix inside the body......

There will be as much new steel as I can get...

The doors are ok exept the corners, and then both sides are bad..... So a new door skin would not work for me this time...

I may need to buy a sand blaster, but bucks are always tight, and I have taken time off work to do this....

I also want to learn that welder, so making panel parts is ok....

I am not sure about the chemicals, and what will or won't stick to what.....

This must be done before winter...before it is too cold to paint......

To save grinding work, I shoot spray can primer on each grind. This will be reground when it gets fixed with what ever the area will get as steel/fillers. Right now I am still exploring what and how bad certain areas are..

I am determined to get this done, as I was with the bike..... Mac

 

[rex]

Re: Mac\'s Lament

Holy cow Mac,now that's a project.I think since winter will be here soon I'd do what you can now and wait until spring to finish-you have a pile of work there.Anyway here's a few helpful tricks.There are rust conversion coatings that will help immensely since there's no way to get to all the rust.I like Ospho (phosphoric acid I think).You can squirt it in seams and let drain for a few days,or if you have surface rust just wipe over it and topcoat in 24hrs after it's dry.You can't let it get on anything but bare steel and rust and it eats cement if it drips on it.Sandblasting is better but.Remember the PPG DP40?Get some.This is the best thing to topcoat the above with and anyplace you grind the paint off.Do all of your bodywork over it too instead of bare steel.If it dries overnite just scuff it with a red scuffpad.If you need to weld in a patch just grind it off where you'll weld and reapply it when done.You don't have to spray it either,just mix up a little without reducer and brush it on with a cheap brush.After you grind your welds down they should be sandblasted but you can also use a wire brush mounted in a diegrinder or drill to clean the scale and impurities from the nooks and crannies.The glue mentioned earlier for patch panels works great.Fusor is the most recognized but now it seems everyone makes it.The only problem is it's about $50 a tube and you need a special caulking gun for $40 since it's 2 part and both tubes are attached side by side.You already have the welder.When you make your metal patches for the doors,do the inside first and use what's left as a template.Don't try to make it in one piece if there's multiple shapes and contours.Break them down to simple strips to shape and weld in individually.Cut the outer panel a little larger to get access to clean and coat the inside before welding on the outside.The outer is easy if I can desribe this right.Make your template and scribe the line that will be your weld line and the door edge.Now add some to the door edge to roll around the flange like the original skin is rolled.At the corner of the door patch cut the flange portion off at like a 45degree cut to the botton of the door line so it touches the actual corner of the outside panel scribed line 1/2 way through the cut.Now bend the edges at the scribed line 90 degrees or more.What you will have is a patch with the bottom and end flange like the door skin started out as and there will be a 45 degree cut on the end of each flange in the corner of the door.Do this with a piece of paper and you'll see what I mean.Tack the patch in place,hammer the flange over like the original skin is and then finish welding it up.I weld or at least tack the corner joint of the flanges,and if the corner happens to be an open joint I put a spot there to close it up and give me something to file the corner to a nice point or radius.Try not to build edges or corners from bondo because they break off easy.Well,there's more to come but my brain is overloading now.Talk to you later.

 

[kevsLX]

Re: Mac\'s Lament

Hey Mac, here's the website for the 5.0 conversion: http://www.converseengineering.com/
Here's a Miata I painted with that Ford Bright Atlantic Blue, code is K7, this is what made me fall in love with that color

 

[Mac_Muz]

Re: Mac\'s Lament

This is reverse order since kevLx said less..

I like that color, and it is near to the color i was thinking of, but lgihter and brighter still, than the P-3?? Dodge patriot blue.... I may do either of these colors....
I will look at the site in a bit, as I came in from cutting and grinding to check this site here... Thanks... Kevlx for the reply.....

Rex, I am working on digesting what you say...

I do not recall any product by the name DP 40.
if i ever used this, I don't know when or on what..... Would you please detail what this is when you can? This sounds like a product I would want from what I see here , but don't know what it is yet....

I bought this Ospho but have not used it from that bottle. I have a few cans of what I think is similar as a spray bomb from Napa... This turns rust to a black harder, and non rusting oxide...... So is this bottle of Ospho near to the same thing?

My tent has a wooden floor, but is there anything I should worry about with this chemical not listed in the bottle? The floor is more or less expendable, but i would like to save it for other uses perhaps, as it was about 120 or so, and I did paint it.... I braced under it to hold jack stands and a jack.

I figure it will get dirty, but be more or less sound for some time... And then stack it under cover in 4x8 which most of it still is... It may get burned here and there from welding, and skuffed some but in general I don't want to acid burn it..... not baddly anyway.....

I do not have a sand blaster as much as I wish just now I did... I will have to forgo one as money became over budget with the welder, or a box full must fall from the sky some how... I can just get what I need to do this... Waiting for spring in not an option.. I must beat winter!

I will look into a sand blaster used if possible...

I do have die grinders and wire brushes, but these wire brushes do not seem to make rusted steel to bright.

The cut off wheels seems to do that better,as used like a grinder wheel more than a cutting wheel.....

For grinding wheels I am using 3-M 36 grit as a flexible disk.

Some of my thoughts and ideas:

My compressor is a tad small for this project, and I believe I will be forced to do a section at a time..... I can do say the roof as on section, and have black trim paint between the roof and the body.

I can treat the tail gate as one section, and maybe the hood as one section, and then the side should be each a section....

If I shoot that way I think I can hold up pressure for clear, when the time comes.

As far as working Ospho, and other spray type rust oxide matierals...... Can I coat rusted steel, let it dry, and get Chromalite (bondo like stuff) to stick?

My hope is that I can grind off the tops of what was sparyed/coated after it is dry, to get a bond with Chromalite (bondo) and have it stick, leaving some of the Ospho and the like on steel......

Is it possible Chromalite will stick to the rough surface that Ospho leaves with out grinding?

That is a major question to me......

I want to cut out what I can, but there are places above my skills that will have rusted metal, and I want to stop the rust and coat it..... perhaps that is what WP 40 does better?

I am confused as always.....

I think what is ment is that Ospho goes on and then WP 40 and body filler will stick to that..

Thanks Rex..... I will reread you bit many times and make a paper template to then cut steel with...... I will also add more pics a bit later this evening, should you happen to get a chance to write more.....

Mac

 

[Mac_Muz]

Re: Mac\'s Lament

I did add a few pics... Any aid in getting off the window plastic decals would be most welcome. I used a heat gun and a paint stick ground as a wood chisel.

Since then I have broken my nails, burnt myself more than once, and picked up a few swear words I didn't know I knew! ;-) Mac

 

[rex]

Re: Mac\'s Lament

Sorry,I was a little vague on the DP40.It's PPG's epoxy primer that was discussed alot when you were painting your bike.It comes in colors but the green (40) has the highest zinc content for corrosion protection.You had it right at the end,Ospho it or the other stuff you have and put the DP over it when it's dry.Anything can be done right over it.Get the DP402 (fast) hardner though to save you some time.It mixes 2-1 and you can just brush it on.After you put it on it will need to dry about 2hrs @ 75deg. before you can put bondo on it.If it sits over 24hrs you'll have to scuff it up with a red scotchbrite before putting anything on it.If you spray it on the 2hrs can be cut back to 1 but however you do it give it a little extra.If you put the bondo on too soon it'll peel off but you'll know because the bondo wont feather out nice,it'll just keep peeling back on the edge.

For the Ospho ,that's all I've used but I suspect the One Step or equivolent you have will follow suit for what I tell you.First you have to get the rust scales out.A pick hammer works most of the time but I've found an automatic center punch works great.If you don't have one an awl and hammer works.Pick out all the scale so it's down to the base metal with the fine coat of rust.Hit it with a wire brush to get any loose rust dust off and put a coat of Ospho on.They say it needs to dry 24hrs but down in this heat 12 usually works.Cover it at night so dew can't settle on it though.When it's dry it'll be a greyish color on good steel and the rust areas will be black and it'll be completely dry,no wet spots.Don't put it on paint too,just steel.You're not supposed to touch it but if you get little bubbles from putting it on I'll take a piece of 180 and lightly scuff over it to pop them but don't break through the coating on the rust.Then brush on the DP.If you use it to pour into seems it usually takes a few days to drain and dry so put a catch container under it,I'm sure it'll screw up wood too plus you can reuse what you catch.Oh,I put it in one of those qt sized pump sprayers for this but it eats the pump seals on the elcheapo's.When you're sanding your bondo,if you break through the DP and there's ospho under it I brush a real thin coat of DP on that spot and let dry before putting more bondo on.I don't think bondo sticks well to Ospho or the others but the guy at the store should know.I never trusted it.

The wire brushes in the die grinder will work good for cleaning up the rust dust before you Ospho,but in my previous post I meant to run them over your welds after you grind them to clean up any slag and residue.Hope this cleared up some stuff for you.Good luck

 

[Mac_Muz]

Re: Mac\'s Lament

I got a money surprize last night! Not much but everything helps... I ordered up a small sand blaster kit. A 40 psi pressure blaster!!

This will delay some work, but in the mean time I can cut patches and get them ready.

What works better than a heat gun on the plastic decals just below the windows? These take 2 life times for me to get off....

Grinding them, just spreads them out all over the place, and kills the grinding paper... I kinda knew that so did not bother...

The heat gun loosens these damn decals, but leaves the glue behind. To get that I use elbow grease and cheap laquer thinner. I can get that crud off, but the time to do it is long...

There has to be a better way... Oh I use a wood paint stick with a ground chisel face to start the decal...

What I do is grind untill the compressor begs to rest... and then go for the heat gun bit... Then when there is air again back to the grinder for less lost time...

I will hunt down Wp-40.... I still do not recall using this on my bike....... maybe I skipt a cog and was supposed to, but did not.

My bike has a fairly nice life where my car does not. If I can help it the bike never sees a single drop of water.... I do get caught in rain, but thats it for water and the bike.... I never use water to clean it.

Thanks for the reply........ Mac

 

[Mac_Muz]

Re: Mac\'s Lament

This may be some time off... I almost forgot to ask..... What do I coat things with on the back side before welding?

What will hold up if anything to places I will not be able to get at once welded?

If I coat a non-rust something on the indside os a patch that I can't get at and weld, and that something burns up, I will have a problem.. So waht is done in places like that?..... Mac

 

[rex]

Re: Mac\'s Lament

Hey Mac.The decals suck.2 other choices are try a razor blade scraper but you'll still need to remove the glue.The other is an eraser.It's a big rubber wheel that feels like a pencil eraserand mounts in a die grinder.Can't tell you how much they cost though but they'll remove the decal and glue and rarely hurt the paint under it.

You didn't use the DP40 on the bike,it was just discussed pretty heavily in other topic about the time you did your scooter.

Getting to the backside of some places are next to impossible.If there's a hole in the panel behind the patch you can put the tube on a can of undercoating (like the tube that comes with WD-40) and hose it in that direction.If there isn't a hole alot of times you can make one and plug it with an undercoating plug like Rusty Jones or the other rustproof companies use.Alot of bodyshops have these setups so you might want to see what they'd charge to do it.Ideally if a bodyman did side work he'd might be able to borrow it and stop by to do it for a few bucks,but that's gonna take some searching.

 

[Mac_Muz]

Re: Mac\'s Lament

I got the last of 6 expletive, expletive, expletive decals off today! Man! That is something I will not be replacing as factory!
I will use paint like God intended!

2 of these would not even budge with a propane torch!

I wire brushed them off more or less.... i got under these with laquer thinner, and my finger nails.... man!!!!!

I got a nasty little surprise, and the orbital I bought with the compressor won't run for more than 55 seconds, and recovery time is almost 2 minutes! Grrrrrrrrrr Grrrrrrrr Grrrrrrrr

To say I am a bit upset is the understatement around here right now...

My so called 6 horse comp, and 25 gallon tank are woefully over rated!

I am going to have to fix this situation fast!!!

You guys can say I told ya so Mac..... I will wiggle and squirm some in my chair, but I will prevail! I wil I will I will!!!!!! I feel better now..

Anyway I will keep posting and hope to get anwers to all these blasted chemicals....

With you guys bucking for me I can not fail.... I may have to work hard, but I can't fail...

SOS send food....... Mac