Noob questions

BassMunn

New member
Hi Everyone

My first post here, so bear with me.
I've almost finished building a bass boat for myself and it's time to make it pretty.
The boat is built using epoxy resins, then faired with epoxy fairing paste and I have sprayed an epoxy primer over it.
My first topcoat will be a white 2K and then the fun begins.
I want to paint 3 flake stripes down the sides of the boat, blue, silver, blue. I will lay down a black base for the flaked areas first with 2K again.

I shot a test panel earlier today and have some problems. I sprayed a black 2K down, left it for 3 hours and then masked off some areas and shot the flake carried in a clear 2K. The flake actually came out pretty nicely considering I haven't sanded or recleared the area, but when I pulled my masking tape it had destroyed the paint underneath. The tape was wet through from all the coats of clear being sprayed to get a heavy flake coverage.

My questions are:
1. How long do you have to wait for the base color to dry before taping for the next layer?
2. What tape or material should I use to prevent this happening?
3. How long must you wait before pulling the tape? I pulled mine as soon as I had finished and the edges stretched when I pulled it off.
4. How do I deal with the large edge that is created by all the layers of paint?

Please help:sillyme:

Thanks
Shannon
 

Maylar

New member
Need a bit more info to help..
What kind of paint? You say 2K, does that mean it has a hardener (urethane) or is it just a base with reducer? Some paints are OK being taped and others aren't. Did the paint underneath come off with the masking tape (define "destroyed") ?

It's always best to pull the masking off while the last coat is still wet if at all possible, to minimize the risk of lifting at the edges. Is that what you're getting?
 
T

TAZ

Guest
Welcome to the Custom Paint Forum!!!

I did a step by step for you, but without knowing the 'flake' you are using, I can only give you the basics. I am assuming that you are including a "larger" flake in your stripes.

Here is what I would do and suggest.
One problem I see right of the bat the way you are doing the stripes is the thickness of the flake along with the black 2k will be terrible to try to sand flat....Great you did the test panel first! :bigokay:

Keep in mind, most of the time flake jobs are done, the flake is done first. Then you mask up the stripes and do the base around it. I've done the flake last before, but it's alot of sanding and prep. Even at that, it's hard to get the flake sections 'flat'.

But, you don't have that option....so to keep the thickness down, you'll want to minimize as many of steps as possible and utilize thinner paints when possible.
So instead of using a 2k black, get you a pint of black basecoat. This is quit e a bit thinner than any any 2k black. You'll need the reducer for this.
Also, for the flake, get some MF-01 and F1 (I think this is the number). Both flakes are silver. You'll hae one small and one bigger flake jar.
Get one quart of SG100 to mix the flake in (this is basically a 'base' clear...not a 2k)
Also, get a jar of kk04 or 05. Depends on how dark you want the blue. You can even mix these if you would like.
You'll also need a quart of UC-35 along with the hardener (and reducer which would be the same reducer used in the above)
I'm assuming that you already of the tape, paper, sandpaper....of course other materials are needed, but for the most part, all the paint you need is listed above

So here are the materials
--1 quart SG-100
1 quart of UC35
hardener for the above
1 gallon of HOK reducer
1 pint of either or both kk05 and kk04
1 pint of black basecoat (PPG or HOK will work)
Flake - mf01 and f11 (both are silver. One smaller and one large flake. Both come in jars) OR, get a smaller and medium sized silver flakes. The smaller the flake, the easier this will be on you! You could even go all MF01 if you wanted to.

As far as the process....

Mask up your three stripes at one time.
You'll want to mask them like this...

  • Layout your stripes with 1/8" fineline tape. Mask the stripes off.
  • Spray a couple coats of the black basecoat (or as many as necessary to get the white stripes covered in black).
  • Now run another 1/8" fineline tape, butted up against the above 1/8" (so now you will have two fineline pieces right next to eachother).
  • Now run a piece of 1/4" mask right over where the two 1/8" come together (this only helps prevent any 'blow through' from occuring in the next steps)
  • Mix up your two flakes in the SG100. You'll want about 70-80% flake, the rest would be the SG100. Reduce this. Assuming you have a gun that can spray flake, I would suggest putting a large nut in the bottom of the cup so you can keep the flake suspended in the SG100. Shake the gun everyonce in a while. Spray the flake over the black until you get it covered.***
  • Now clearcoat the stripes. Let sit until the next day.
  • Now sand the stripes 'flat'. I would suggest 600 hookit II DA paper. Then buzz over that with 1000 grit wet.
  • Now you will need to mask up the stripe you want to remain silver.
  • Now mix up the kk with the SG100 (read directions on the amount), along with the reducer and spray the remaining 2 stripes until they get a nice rich blue. Let these dry at couple hours before removing all the mask or you will have a peeling problem.
  • Now, you will need to carefully remove the 1/4" mask tape and the second 1/8" fineline that you put on in the above.
  • You should now see your 3 flake stripes. All should have a 1/8 black border around them now.
    --Now you can either clear the complete flake strip along with the black border and leave it with an edge you can feel around the black**
    --OR, you can remove ALL the mask and reclear the sides of the boat. Then you can resand the stripes and the clear and reclear once again. If done correctly, then the stripes (both the flake and the black edges should be flat with the rest of the paint job)

** Some notes
--Adding the black edge will give the stripes a more detailed look to them.
--This will also help the stripes to 'step down' to the white base. Meaning that you will just not have a thick edge of flake, candy, and clear
--Also, since we are using 'candy' to coat the flake for the blue stripes, this will 'bleed' onto the white if you do not have the black stripe around it. With the black pinstriped edge, this will give you a 'bleed zone' whereas when the blue bleeds it will be over the black stripe and not the white base. So you will not see where it bleeds.
--I used silver flakes in the above as, I would not suggest spraying 'blue flakes' for the blue stripe. When you resand the stripe flat, some of the flakes will turn silver on you.

***Of course if you are going with a smaller flake (no larger flake), then you can just spray the candy blue over the flake, and skip the first clear/sand. The ONLY reason you do not spray the candy blue over the stripes if you are using a large flake is when you sand the stripes 'flat', wherever your sand through where the flakes are "sticking up" will turn back to silver. Get it 'flat' THEN add the candy blue. Again, this is ONLY if you are using the LARGER flakes.

There are other ways of doing this as well...like if want to 'double' edge it (you'll end up with a black edge, and a 'clear' edge).

  • Mask up your stripes.
  • Run a 1/8" inside that (1/4 " mask up where it butts the original. I say this to keep it simple as there are other ways of doing this step).
  • Spray the stripes black
  • Redo the taped edge in the step above (1/8" and the 1/4")
  • Spray the flake, clearcoat, then sand flat the next day.
  • Spray the candy over the two stripes.
  • Now remove the double 1/8" tape and 1/4" that you just did in the above. So now you really have it 'stepped down'
You go from the flake/candy/clear, down to the black edging, down the the white. You should now see a black edge and a white edge. Now clearcoat (the complete stripes, black edge and clear edge) . You will not see the clear edging, but you will feel it. You should be able to wetsand it to an acceptable edge (this is an old custom van trick so you don't have to clearcoat the complete van).

Using a smaller flake like the MF01 will really help out the process and change a few of the steps above!!!!! Using a metallic will even make it easier to get some fairly flat stripes without clearcoating the complete boat.

Do 2 test panels and you'll see it's easier than described in the above.
Do one with the single edge (black) and the other with a double edge(clear and black)

Using the candy blue over the silver flake will really bring out the flake!!!


Hope this helps and isn't too confusing. :freak:

Need help, let us know! Plenty of great help on this forum!
 

Brian Dee

Super Moderator
Well there you go BassMunn, All you could ever want to know about shootin flake. Taz has given you great advise. Let us know how it comes out. Sounds like a pretty neat project you've got yourself into. how bout a photo or two,would love to see that boat.
 
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BassMunn

New member
TAZ - Thanks for the awesome tutorial:bigokay: You won't believe how much searching I've been doing trying to find the right way to do this.

A little about myself, my name is Shannon Munn and I'm a mad bass fisherman hence the username BassMunn.
I live in Durban, South Africa.
In Oct 2008 being boatless at the time, I took on the mammoth task of building myself a boat. I bought plans from a company in Florida for a Flats boat that I felt would make a good bass boat after a few alterations.
It's all Marine Ply encased in epoxy fibreglass (composite boat).
It started out like this:

PH16%20002.jpg

PH16%20015.jpg

PH16%20033.jpg

And this is how far I am now

PH16_350c.jpg

If you want to read the build saga (all 70 pages worth:lurk:) just click the link Bateau2 - Builder Forums • View topic - BassMunn's PH16

OK sorry I get all carried away when someone asks me about my boat:freak:

Back to spraying - I have very little experience with paint spraying, I sprayed a racing car years ago in a single color and I've sprayed my boat in primer and the hull bottom to final topcoat. Apart from a bit of airbrushing fishing lures that's about it.

I've got a budget HVLP gun with a 1.4mm nozzle for top coat and a 2mm nozzle that I drilled out to 2.5mm for the Flake.
I originally bought some 0.025" Saphire Blue flake from Kustom shop, but it's just too dark and is pretty difficult to spray. I'm waiting on some flake from Paint with Pearl in 0.004" size. I ordered some electric Blue candy with the idea of possibly spraying it over silver flake but they were out of stock.
I finally found a local supplier that I can get decent flake from in 0.008 size.

The problem I have over here is that when I go into any auto paint shop and ask about pearls, candies and flakes they look at me like I'm nuts
 

BassMunn

New member
The 2K I'm refering to is a 2 part urethane.

Here's a pic of what the masking tape did to my black coat
Paint 008c.jpg

I think I just masked and sprayed too soon, but I'm not sure (it could also be the cheap junk masking tape I was using):think1:

I sprayed the silver stripe tonight and it didn't seem to do anything to the masked off areas.
Please excuse the finish, this is my test panel that has about 5 different layers of flakes and runs underneath it (which have never been sanded:crap:). I also haven't laid any clear over it yet.

Paint 014c.jpg

TAZ I will definately be using the methods and system you suggest.

BUT I now have some really NOOB questions.

Fineline tape I understand, but for the rest of the masking what products should I use for the small areas (brand of masking tape) and for the large areas?

For the paint, I went with a complete 2K system because I was under the impression that the 2K system would be stronger than a base coat clear coat system. Was I mistaken in that assumption? I really don't have a clue when it comes to paint.

Thanks for all the help so far:bigokay:

Shannon
 

Maylar

New member
Honestly, I've never painted a boat so I have no idea about paint surviveability in water. But base/clear should fare the same as 2K I think, and be a whole lot easier to handle.

The black in your pic seems that it just wasn't cured enough before taping. 3 hrs may not be enough at the temperature you're spraying. Dry time can be accelerated with an infared heat lamp if needed. Urethane will get pretty hard after curing and MUST be sanded before painting over it. The process of cure time and subsequent scuffing is the big reason people do BCC instead.

The fineline tape is used to define the edges. On a big project you can usually get by with 1/4" if you don't have tight curves. The main masking can be any good painter's tape supplimented with paper. There is special paper (rolls) made for that, but any plain paper will work. There are also rolls of paper with masking tape already applied to one edge available at paint stores. Very handy.

Nice boat. Congrats on that.
 
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BassMunn

New member
Thanks for the clarification Maylar, I'll go scratch around at the paint shops later this week to get better quality masking material and look into black and clear base coats.
 

Victor Shidono

New member
Hi BassMunn,


Background
I'm new to this blog. I'm in Zambia Southern Africa. Could you point me to a reliable custom paint and material supplier in South Africa? On 9th March 2010, I did a “test” purchase online from TCP Global of 2 ounce chrome silver ultra micro flake that cost me some $30. Shipping to Zambia cost me more at $64. I was really exacted about this because I was able to track the flakes via Fedex tracking from San Diego, to Indianapolis, through Britain and directly to my location a day before the estimated delivery date on 15th March 2010. To me this marked a mile stone to start doing some custom painting.

Project
I planned to do a two tone kind of test project “on my wife’s Toyota Nadia Hatchback a Japanese import. My plans were to spray some brilliant silver urethane base coat – KUS UMB -8001, and use KUS UBC825 urethane mid coat clear to lay the metal flake from the successful online test purchase. I then planned to tone the project with KUS UKB 8314 deep purple kandy base for middle of the hood following the curves that run down from the windshield to the grill and spray the kandy on the whole roof. I was going to clear coat the whole car with 2K speed urethane clear part A KUS KC210. The plastic headlamps on my wife’s car are currently faded and have a nasty yellow look. Plan was to wet sand them with fine paper up to 2,000 and then buff out with a polish. To protect them was going to use headlight tint eurolight ultra violet tint kit to match the kandy purple.

My frustration
I paid TCP Global online on 12th April 2010 through google checkout $424. I immediately got an email from google advising that TCP will charge and ship my order soon. Checking my account the following date, it was charged with the $424. To my surprise all went quite and clicking on my order till 15th April only gave me a “not yet Shipped” status. I therefore decided to write to TCP and find out what was going on. A day later on 16th April 2010, I only got an anonymous Hello, This ticket had to be cancelled because we cannot ship hazardous materials to your location. Regards, TCP Global Technical Support, 6695 Rasha Street San Diego, Ca 92121, 858-909-2120. This was promptly followed by another message to tell me that the order has been cancelled and refunded (I’m yet to see the refund on my account this being a weekend). I then contacted the shipping department technical support of TCP who advised that sorry for any of our paint materials Fedex or UPS does not allow us to ship to any country in Africa.

SOS
Is this the end of my dreams of becoming the first ever custom painter in Zambia? I’m I now stuck with the boring OEM paint schemes on the road? Would you know of any local suppliers in South Africa or have you been able to get paint from the States and if so which supplier will be able to ship?
 
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BassMunn

New member
Victor, welcome to the site and custom spray painting.

OK firstly TCP or any other paint outlet for that matter cannot ship paint via airfreight as it is a fire hazard, doesn't matter which country it comes from, the airlines won't let it on.

Your only option would be to buy stuff from Paint with Pearl (www.paintwithpearl.com)
They sell candy's and pearls in powdered form, which can be shipped via airfreight. When you get the powder you mix it into clear coat for your desired affects.
They also stock glitter flake and some cool looking color shifting pearls as well as glow in the dark pearls.
I've ordered from them once and got my stuff with no problem.

Hope that helps
 

Victor Shidono

New member
Thanks BassMunn,

I will check up their site and let you know how this goes...wonder why I never came across this forum years back , proving to be very helpful already.

Thanks...
 
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BassMunn

New member
Finally finished

Suppose I should update my thread too.

Finally finished clear coating my boat last weekend.
For the Glitter flaked areas I sprayed a black coat first and then hit it with the glitter. I had to spray so many coats of the glitter down to get the coverage I wanted that it eventaully became a nightmare to sand flat and the color just didn't look right.
So after much deliberating I decided to sand it all off and try again (You can't believe how sick of sanding I have become after building this boat).

So I sprayed the black again, scuffed it up and masked a fine line edge on it, like so
PH164042c.jpg


PH164043c.jpg


I went a local paint shop and had them mix up a 2K silver with a blue tint in it (I didn't know you could get a 2K silver mettalic, always thought you could only get metallic in base coat). Sprayed the blue and nearly stopped right there. I'm still debating on whether I should have left it like this, it looked so nice.

PH164045c.jpg


Loaded my clear coat heavily with 0.008 flake and gave it 2 coats (Yip only 2 coats, what a difference.)
PH164046c.jpg


After Clear coat, I still have to sand and buff it, there's no hurry so I'm gonna leave it for a few weeks
PH164058c.jpg
 

BassMunn

New member
It's a horrible pic, but gives you an idea of the glitter

PH164062c.jpg


A good close up in the sunlight
PH164069c.jpg


I covered my dash in carbon fibre and then just clear coated it to protect the epoxy resin
PH164059c.jpg


Still a lot of sanding and buffing to do to get it just right, but I'm pretty happy at how it came out.
PH164073cc.jpg
 

Brian Dee

Super Moderator
Well she's done. You sure did a great job,looks pretty cool. Yup, shootin flake is not easy,but you did it. Very nice. now it's time to go fishin.
Brian.
 

Victor Shidono

New member
Hi BassMunn,

I tried to purchase from Paint with Pearl but they don't have Zambia listed.

I settled to go with a BC/CC black and silver 2-tone job using local shop who sell Kapaci Coating paint system from Egypt. Borrowing from you only lead down two coats of clear with the micro Chome silver flake on top of the silver and another two coats of clear on top of that. Let iit sit for 3 days wet sanded it did the back base parts and lead down two caots of clear on the whole car. I let is sit another two days wet sanded it and did two flow coats of clear This Friday. Sat wet sanded it with 1,200 then 1,500 and finally 2,000 too me from 07:00am to mid day. Took a small break and from 03pm to mid nite polished the car. I loved the glitter even at nite under a blub.

Thanks BassMunn for letting me use your thread to get in touch...hope for my next project I will be able to get the material I need...here is the nite photo
Flake in the dark photo.jpg
 

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