Paint peeling/fading...

[Widget]

Hi all, new here and to the whole painting experience.

Basically my car has been hit by weather over the past years, and now the rear of my car is losing paint, and to top that off.. starting to rust.

I don't want to do a whole body repaint or anything, i just want to fix up what's damaged. It's an old car so I'm happy to do it myself, but I'm not too sure of the process.

here's a couple pics;


Close up of the faded/rust area. All the white area has a powder like substance, I'm not sure what it is and how to clean off.


Area affected.




Here, the paint has started to flake off (I think it's the glossy coat).

Any help would be great,


thanks

 

[TAZ]

Hello and welcome to the forum.
Looks like you might be catching the problem areas at the beginning stages, so that's a good thing.

Since are are not doing a complete repaint, I would take some 180 DA (dual action sander) to the areas where the 'dead' clear is on the red. Feather all this out, then prime the areas only.
As far as the rust areas, you will need to use probably 80DA and sand all these areas very good until all the rust is gone. You will also need to prime these areas.
Be sure and use a good epoxy primer. Not just a cheap lacquer primer.

Once you get all your areas primed, you will need to finish sand these areas with 320 grit.
Then prep the rest of your panels by wetsanding with 1000 grit. If you are real close to an adjacent panel, instead of panel painting, go ahead and sand this area with 1000 grit. This will give you areas to 'blend'.
Once you blend your paint, then you can clearcoat all panels.

This should give you a good start.

 

[Widget]

..I would take some 180 DA (dual action sander) to the areas where the 'dead' clear is on the red.

I don't have a Sander, can I rub it back by hand?

Feather all this out, then prime the areas only.

What do you mean by 'feather'. Also, is Priming the undercoat ?

Be sure and use a good epoxy primer. Not just a cheap lacquer primer.

Do you reccomend and good Brands.

Then prep the rest of your panels by wetsanding with 1000 grit. If you are real close to an adjacent panel, instead of panel painting, go ahead and sand this area with 1000 grit. This will give you areas to 'blend'.
Once you blend your paint, then you can clearcoat all panels.

What do you mean by "Panels"? Parts of the car that arn't affected ?

*Is the Sandpaper just standard sandpaper with different grades ? as I've seen wetndry paper from a hardware store.

*And lastly, "Blend", meaning getting the correctly colour to match the car ?


very sorry for these questions, but very greatfull of your help,


thanks

-Widget

 

[TAZ]

Widget,

---You can rub by hand, but removing rust and paint by hand will definitely take some work.

---Feathering means to feather the paint out. Basically this means to slowly merge from one level of paint to the next, to the next...until you cannot feel the area.

---Primer is the undercoat

---Most primers that come with hardeners should be good enough for what you are doing.

---I was referring to doors, fenders, 1/4 panels, sail panels....as panel.

---I would definitely use 'dry' sandpaper when you are removing the rust. You can use 'wetsand' paper when doing the panels with the dead clear on it.

--Blending is referred to as not painting the complete panel. Just to paint the area and 'blend' the paint outward. This is basically done to deceive the eye. If you panel paint and the color is a shade or two off, it is noticeable, whereas if you blend the paint, it will be less noticeable.

If you get a chance, I would look into at least just getting a cheap DA, 6" pad. This will make life much easier. I assume you already have a compressor and gun since you are spot painting your car.

 

[Maylar]

You should invest in a "dual action" sander, referred to around here as a "DA". They're not expensive and they'll save you hours of painful hand sanding.

How much area is affected? Is it just one panel (trunk lid for example) or is the whole car faded and chalkie? If that peeling clear coat in your picture is typical of the whole car, you'll be wasting your time unless you do the whole thing.

As Taz mentioned, the rusted areas need to be sanded to bare metal and coated with primer that sticks to bare metal, preferably epoxy primer (for best moisture resistance) or a self-etch primer. These direct-to-metal primers go on very thin and get covered with another primer that's used for filling minor imperfections. You sand that with whatever grit your base color paint recommends, then clear on top of that.

The peeling clear needs to be sanded flat so there's no perceivable edge (feathering as Taz put it) then primed and painted.

Once it's all painted you should buff out the whole car to bring the old paint back to the color and gloss of the new paint.

 

[Widget]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the replies.

TAZ - Unfortunately I don't have a compressor or spray can. I assumed the paint came in a can :S

Maylar - Just the rear hatch is affected. The top of the boot is basically all done white (worst part), and the buttom where the clear has started to flake away. That's about it.


thanks again

 

[Widget]

Hi

I stopped by a retail store and they sold these sandpaper packs, though they don't mention the Grade or anything :\, but they tell you what they're made of,

Can anyone recommend from the link pics, or best to go to a proper car parts store ?


Thanks

 

[TAZ]

Man, that's hard to tell what grit they would be. I would say that the finer grit sandpapers are the one's with the "Wet and Dry use". So the lower left would be your finer grit. You don't want to use that until the end of your paint job.
You might want to check out the "Eagle" website. I bet they would list what grit those are.

I take it you don't have a local auto body shop supplier?

 

[Widget]

...You don't want to use that until the end of your paint job.

When you say "end" of paint job, which step are you refering to ?

When I was going to paint, I was planning on,

1) Sand back rust with high grit paper till all gone
2) sand affected area with finer grit till all smooth.
3) Paint undercoat a couple times
4) Paint with colour a few times.
5) Paint with Gloss

Also, which colour would be reccomended for the Undercoat ? I'm applying the stock colour of Burgandy (that redish colour), so I was thinking either grey or white?

I take it you don't have a local auto body shop supplier?

There is one in the town where I work, so I'llt ake a trip up there next time and check out paints/papers.


Thanks

 

[TAZ]

If you added a step 6), it would read something like 6) Wetsand with the finer grit, then buff.
So you would use the 'finer' grit for the end of the job. Normally this should be 1500+ grit

There is one in the town where I work, so I'llt ake a trip up there next time and check out paints/papers.

That's your best bet on getting everything you need, so be sure and take a list

 

[Widget]

Hi,

sorry for being a pain, but I just need to doulbe check everything for my list,

1) 80grit for rust (just isn't 'that' bad, still feels pretty smooth, would I still need such a rough grit paper ?)

2) 180grit for the dead clear parts (seen in picture 3)

3) 320grit for use after priming

Once you get all your areas primed, you will need to finish sand these areas with 320 grit.

How come I sand after priming, wouldn't that sand away my primer ?

4) 1500grit for final sand before wax? what about the clear coat ? wouldn't sanding before waxing remove my clear coat ?

5) Epoxy primer (I read another post and they mentioed after Priming, they 'seal'. How does that work ?)


Again, sorry for being a nuisance, but very greatfull for everyones assistance and patients

 

[TAZ]

Widget,

1) Yes, 80 grit would be best on the rust

2) Yes, I would use 180 on the dead clear areas

3) 320 grit after priming *

4) 1500 before wetsand and buffing (not waxing)*

* The above are assuming that you are using good equipment, and applying the primer and clear properly.

Normally I would suggest sealer if you were doing a complete car, but you mentioned in your first post you did not want to do the complete car, therefore, you'll need to keep the spots as small as possible. Otherwise your spots are going to get bigger and bigger.

Keep when I speak of primer and sealer, these are two different things.
primer is taking care of bad areas - you dry sand this
sealer is to seal the areas or complete car and give your new paint a good ground coat- you do NOT sand this. This is a wet on wet type paint.
Both of the above require hardeners

If you apply the primer properly you will have enough material to sand the areas with 320 and not go through to many areas (though I'm sure you will go through a few areas)

Being that it appears in the pics that most of the top surfaces are going to be primed, and for correct color match you'll be blending into the adjacent panels, you are pretty much going to paint the complete car anyway, SO, I would suggest just going ahead and planning to do the complete car anyway. Since you have so much to spray anyway, I'm sure you'll find this is the best and easiest way.
If you do the complete car, yes, I would suggest 'sealing' the complete car.

If you still plan on spotting, and you still have good coverage with the primer you put on, I would suggest just using a white paint with a tad bit of red in it as your groundcoat. Reds these days do not cover at all, so you want to make sure you have a good uniform ground coat before applying the red

:bigokay:

 

[Widget]

Hey all,

I only just got around to doing this job unfortunately, and have applied a few coats of Primer, though I have a bit of an issue. After applying the 2nd coat, part of the job began becoming quite rough though I'm too sure what's making it rough. I guess as I did it outside (situated between the house and fence for reduced wind), I could have gotten some dirt, though it wasn't windy that day.

I sanded the paint to bare metal with 80grit, then 120, then a quick 180. Wiped down the bare metal with some Turpentine on a clean rag, then wiped it off with another clean rag before it dried. Continued with this until the rag didn't grab anymore dirt. then I applied the Primer.
I was considering getting the wax & grease remover from 3M, but someone told me turps did the same job and was cheaper.. mistake ?

Should I just sand it back with some 800grit ( + - ) and give it a couple more coats ?

link to photos;
Car pictures by Widget1983 - Photobucket

[Edit] I got some off-spray on my car/window... what's best way to clean that off ? I used some window cleaner and got majority from windows, but still a lil left.

Thanks,

 

[Widget]

Hey all,

I ended up sanding back with 600grit and wiping down with some turps then applying another 2x coats (seems smoother).. though.. while leaving it there to dry some, it kinda started to rain (sprinkle drops), I managed to get a clean cotton rag and wipe some water off the Primed area and then cover the car with a car-cover tart.. just wondering however, what sort of problems could I get from water touching the primer area ? When I touch-dried the area before covering it, it didn't feel sticky, it dry enough to touch.

Before applying my base coat, I'm gonna sand lightly with some 800grit, wipe clean then apply base coat.. just wondering because of the current situation, if there's anything I should look out for or anything I should do before go further because of the water situation.


Thanks,

 

[TAZ]

Anytime, you apply the primer and clearcoat, you'll have to remember that you willl also be removing some of this when sanding before painting and wetsanding before you buff.
If you have a good catalyzed primer, you could do 4-5 coats and this should be plenty to sand with. Same with the clearcoat.
This is as long as you lay it on medium wet coats. If your pressure is too high, or your gun is too far away, it will be dry and appear rough. I would think this is what you problem was.

After you 800 grit, be sure and wipe it down with a pre-paint cleaner. I don't think I would use the turpentine. Then blow it and tack it very good.
Then apply your base. Use fairly low pressure and don't apply it 'wet'. I normally spray medium wet coats. This will also make it less susceptible to getting dirt chunks in the base.

 

[TAZ]

As far as the overspray on the windows, you can do one of the following...

--Spray lot's of glass cleaner on the glass, and at the same time, use a razor blade to scape off the overspray.
--It it's not too heavy, you can buff it off
--use lacquer thinner to get the overspray off.
--use some fine steel wool

 

[Widget]

Hi all,

I sanded back lightly then applied a couple base coats.. though I think it's turned out to have an 'orange peel' effect (i believe that is what it's called). What's the best way to go about fixing this ? by the looks of it, it may lie within the primer itself ? When I sanded the primer, I ran my fingers over it and it did feel smooth.. though maybe I needed to rub it back more ?

Should I use 600grit (more/less?), rub back the base coat and rub back the primer a bit more ? then re-apply base ?

I've uploaded more photobucket images which shows the texture (in most of them)

Pictures by Widget1983 - Photobucket

(the red images)


Thanks

 

[Widget]

Hey all,

I ended up sanding it back to the primer (though I went back to metal in some parts ), re-applied a couple coats then wetsanded 600-800 & now it feels alot smoother then before (and looks it too), though I have a couple questions regarding the progress;

1) Does the Primer coat need to be really smooth before applying base coat ?

2) I noticed when wet-sanding that there were a couple of tiny areas (probable have to look close to see) that had clusters of darker colour primer...could this be because i sanded too much in that section (though i'm sure they were already there before sanding) or maybe that section maybe had some traces of oil and the primer didn't stick to it properly ?

3) How will I know if I sand too much ? With the previous question, should it be best to apply another 1-2 coats or primer and re-sand to thicken it up ?

4) Taz, you said in your earlier post

..I normally spray medium wet coats..

what do you mean by that ?

5) Because I'm using aerosol (yes, I know.. terrible, terrible me), it feels as though it lays on thicker, and being aerosol I can't add thinner, is it 'ok' to sand between coats to keep it smooth if it seems bumpy ? or is it best to just spray the multiple coats, let it dry then sand back if needed (and apply another coat or two)?

6) I don't have a paint booth, so I've been doing it outside (in the sun)... the other day I was wiping with wax & grease removed and because it was hot, the car metal got pretty hot too and it started to evaporate quicker then I could fully wipe down.. is this a no-no ? would it leave residue ? Should I be painting in a much cooler environment (i.e. later in the afternoon, earlier in the morning) ?

I've updated the photos with some of the current state of primer (though I don't think it shows much.. possibly due to lack of light or poor camera work :sillyme

Pictures by Widget1983 - Photobucket

BTW, some of those pics may show lines or dark spots, that's from the wetsanding (dark spots of water area) and lines from wiping down the mucky water (mixture or water and primer). Didn't get a chance to wipe properly.

ANY comments welcome,

Thanks

 

[TAZ]

1- you need to get it smooth as possible (along with being 'straight' if you had bodywork).
We normally just sand with 320. You may want to do this, then if you want it smoother, you could go the 600 grit.

2-- If they are the dark spots that are shown in this pic, that appears to be where you are going through the primer and it's showing either bondo or fiberglass.
I saw some other dark spots, but that almost appears where it was wet or where you wiped down the area and it wasn't dry yet.

3--You really can't sand too much, or unless you do have bondo. You definitley want to keep the primer over the bondo.
Just get it smooth and quit. You want all areas to be consistent with no orange peel or texture.

4--Medium wet coats mean you don't want to spray it dry, but yet you don't want to spray it so heavy that it could even run on you.
From what I see in this pic, it appears the paint is too thick and you applied it to heavy.
Double check to make sure you are reducing the base correctly.

5--Oops. I forgot you are using aerosol. If it's fast drying, you can sand between coats.
If your panel still looks like in the link above, I would wetsand that with 600 and then apply 2 medium wetcoats.

6--Yes, I would wait until it was a little cooler or wipe and spray it in the shade. You'll want the metal to cool down before doing either.
You'll probably notice that the paint will lay one nicer without such thick coats.

BTW, some of those pics may show lines or dark spots, that's from the wetsanding (dark spots of water area) and lines from wiping down the mucky water (mixture or water and primer). Didn't get a chance to wipe properly.

That's what I thought they might be...I mentioned that above

:luck:

 

[Widget]

Hi all,

So I've applied my base coat but there's a few imperfections in the job. Is it possible to sand the base coat without loosing colour ? wetsand ?

Also, after applying clearcoat, if I choose to buff.. how hard (if possible) would it be to do it by hand ? and, would buffing help reduce the texture quality ? ie, if there's a 'slight' orange peel effect in the base, would applying clean then buffing make the effect look smooth ?

Thanks,

(will update pics soon)