Painting Gloss black ACRYLIC LACQUER with HVLP 2mm tip, Need helpfull advice on setup

[iwamaryu]

Hi guy, I'm new to this forum, it's great and has heaps of info. Unfortunately most of the info on this site refers to 2K applications. I'm painting the front bar, 2 front quarters and rear boot of a Nissan 180 sx. The paint is Gloss black. I need advice from people who paint have painted with ACRYLIC LACQUERS. The only reason i'm painting an acrylic lacquer is because it's the only safe paint system that can be used with an ordinary carbon filter respirator (this is a home job by the way). I need advice on the gun setup. I have a mid entry gravity fed HVLP, I know a lot of people run 30-35psi with a 1.4mm tip(on their 2k setup). Due to painting Acrylic lacquer I'm using a 2mm tip(recommended by the paint store & the paint manufacturer). Because of the different viscosity of acrylic lacquer and the fact that i'm using a 2mm tip, should I be running more or less pressure? than the usual 30-35psi at the gun?

For example if get orange peel will increasing or decreasing solve the problem?(what are the traits associated with raising and lowering gun pressure?). I just want as much info before I tackle this.

 

[TAZ]

I started getting into painting pretty close to the end of the ole' lacquer era (early 80's), so I can't be too much of a help to you, but the times I had sprayed it, I remember putting medium/wet coats on. You don't want to get the paint too dry and you don't want to get it too wet. As far as spray gun setup, this is really has a lot to do with spray technique. I would start off with a full fan and possibly the fluid about 1/2 way. This is ONLY a start. You'll have to gauge what's going on as soon as you start. You'll probably want to be about 5-7" from the surface. You'll also want a good overlapping technique.

With as thin as lacquer paint is, it's really hard to get orange peel. If you are applying it and it's too dry, try to slow down or increase the fluid nozzle (or both).
It's all about feel.

 

[iwamaryu]

thanks for the advice TAZ. I'll give it go. My main concern is that the paint doesn't go down flat. But I guess I can color sand the last base coat flat before going on to the clear top coat

 

[iwamaryu]

I started putting the primer filler on today. I played around with the settings first spraying at 30 psi then 40psi, then 50, still came out un-even. I think the primer shows a orange peel effect because it's primer "filler" not primer "surfacer". Primer filler being thicker I don't think it comes out of the gun too well. Regardless after the primer was done i sprayed a guide coat and started rubbing down. Took a long time to get it even. I use p800 and rubbed down till it was flat.

 

[iwamaryu]

Started blocking flat the primer filler was pretty happy with the results, turned out real flat. Used p800.

After the primer was flat, I started with the color coats. I put on 3 coats, knowing with it wouldn't probably lay down flat and needed enough paint so I could color sand it down when it was dry without cutting back down to the primer. This is how my paint job turned out (without the clear top coat).

As you can see a lot of "orange peel" (correct me if I'm wrong). I made sure I prep washed(wax and grease remover) all panels before painting. I made sure all panels were dry. I have 2 water/air separator filters, 1 at the compressor and 1 at the gun. I also played around with the air pressure playing around with 30, 35, 40psi. In the end I couldn't tell much of a difference so I left it at 35psi approx. I'm not too fused with the orange peel, it just means I couldn't simply spray on the clear and finish up. Now I have to let it dry over night and block it down flat with p1500-p2000 before I can clear coat it, makes the whole job much longer I also thinned the paint to manufactured specs (1 part lacquer to 1.5 parts thinner). The only ideas I could think that would cause the orange peel effect is spraying distance (i stay abt 25cm from panels), speed movement, or maybe incorrect tip size (manufacturer recommends 1.6-2.0mm, i'm using 2mm maybe i should try a 1.8 tip)

By the way this is the gun; i'm using No name- HVLP 2mm tip.

 

[TAZ]

I would say the orange peels is either your gun adjustment, the air pressure you used at the gun, or the distance you had the gun when you are spraying.
Or even a little of each of the above.

Lacquer is pretty thin to start with, so it's a little harder to get orange peel in it because it is too thin. Possibly thin it down just a tad bit more. Apply it a little bit wetter than you were, and hold the gun just a little close.
Hopefully this gives you better results. Things like this can be hard to figure out what the actual problem is without being there watching what you did.

It does look like the paint job came out clean though which is good. You may find that you have to cut it down with possibly 1000 grit. Then apply one more coat of black (just to make sure that you don't have any scratches or a blem showing through the clear. THEN go ahead and shoot the clearcoat over it.

 

[iwamaryu]

lacquer is pretty thin? I though it was meant to be thinker then 2k paint, hence the requirement for a larger gun tip?

I've started cutting the black down flat, i used 1200 to completely flat the surface then finishing with 2000. Is it necessary to apply another coat of black? because I scared applying another coat will orange peel again. Can't I just apply the clear coat after color sanding?

I think i'm gonna invest in a better spray gun. I'm think either the "Sharpe Finex 3000" with a 1.8tip and an extra 1.4tip[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana,]

[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]Or the Devilbiss "[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]StartingLine Gun[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Spray System in a Box (3 HVLP Spray Guns)"[/FONT] comes with 2 full size guns one with 1.3 and one with 1.8 . also comes with a small touch up guns
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both cost about the same price one comes with 3 guns the other comes with 1. I want to have the option of having a 1.4 and a 1.8. SO which package do you think is better?

 

[TAZ]

Yea, lacquer is pretty thin. I believe you had mentioned you reduceed it just over 100% (just over one to one. More reducer than paint).
Normally basecoats are 1 to 1 and lacquer is even a tad bit thinner than that.
Also back in the days, they used to spray 10-20 coats of clearcoat since the clear was so thin.
As far as spraying the black again once spray, just a nice medium wet coat. NOT a wet thick coat.
I know you wouldn't like the idea of 'not' spraying the one coat of black before clear, only to find out that once you clearcoated, you left a smudge on top of the black....know you can see it through the clearcoat.
That one 'insurance' coat helps prevent any mishaps like that.

 

[iwamaryu]

I agree with you on that. I will put down another coat of black then clear it but first I'm gonna get a new spray gun before I continue with this project. I can't trust the hvlp gun I have now it's cheap and nasty, and the box doesn't give much detail how much pressure is at the cap in relation to the pressure at the gun, it just says operating pressure 50-70psi on the box ( i don't think that's right). Yeah still deciding on a devilbiss gun.

I'm still finding it hard to believe acrylic lacquer is thinner then 2k paint because lacquer requires a larger tip then 2k; 1.8-2.0mm tip (recommended by paint shop and paint manufacture). Maybe the lacquer you used back in the day was different then how they produce it today? I can't judge anyway i've never used 2pac paints before.

Also found a small area that had pin holing after color sanding, that's annoying. Anyway the project is on hold till i get a new gun. I'll let you know how it goes

 

[Verwokkfrpew]

It’s really great posts.