pin striping those flames

[big stinkie]

Welcome to the board!

Try the seach button and search for "pinstripe" or "outline." You'll find a bunch of threads on the subject. If you still have questions don't be afraid to ask. Someone can always help you out.

Here's one link you can try.

http://www.customflamepainting.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=000118

Later,

Andy aka Big Stinkie

 

[rex]

Ghost flames shouldn't be outlined,only on 'visible' flames like contrasting colors.

 

[big stinkie]

Are you sure, Rex? Being an artist, you oughta know that rules are meant to be broken.

I recall seeing a set of pinstriped ghost flames in a book by Kosmoski (spelling) somewhere. It might be a cool effect. I've seen flames that were made up of only the pinstripe, with no flame color...just the base color inside.

(Turning on soap box mode.)

I realize that I know very little about this compared to lots of you folks on the board, but I was an art teacher for a number of years, and I was constantly amazed at the wonderful stuff my students would come up with when they experimented. I hate to use an over-used phrase, but they were thinking out of the box. Painting flames, IMHO, is simply another art form.

There is a story about a grade school art student who was madly coloring a squirrel purple. The teacher told him squirrels should be colored brown. He looked up at the teacher and said, "This son-of-a-b*tch is gonna be purple."

If more of us 'colored our squirrels purple,' (or put pinstripes on ghost flames) just think of the cool things we'd come up with.

(Soap box mode turned off...flame retardant suit on.)

No disrespect meant by any of my ramblings, Rex.

 

[Stretch]

Here's to breakin' the rules

-Stretch

 

[rex]

Andy,I sure hope when you said artist you meant you because that's something I definately am not.I agree with with your perspective though,it's in the eye of the beholder.I've seen some beauty in the unconventional but my taste runs more to the coservitive side than the bold in you face stuff.I don't have a prob doing it but I think alot of nice subtleties (sp) are more interesting than flash.

 

[endurance]

Hey Folks , I'm new to the community and was just wondering if someone could tell me in plain english how to out line flames after you have painted them

I have a 1500 Vulcan classic that I want to paint ppg orange glow w/ either silver or gold undercoat then I hope to put bright pearl ghost flames on it. Although maybe your not suppose to out line ghost flames. It's all new to me. this will be my first project. Good thing it's my bike,

In any case I would still hope someone could answer my question in laymens terms Thanks

 

[endurance]

Thank You for your responses everyone I'm very impressed with the tips that I've gotten from everyone. That photo of the vacum cleaner said it all. Obviously you can outline the flames or not outline the flames it all comes down to personal choice. I read through many of the tips that were suggested by big stinkie but I'm still curious how to get the out line painted without getting the color back into the area where the flame will be. In other words, if I outline the flame then remask the area where the outline will be the chances that there will be excess color on the inside of that masked line are pretty great. Can I take some kind of thinner or remover and clean up the lnside overspray before I shoot the pearl on the inside of the flame with out damaging the basecoat or have I lost my flipping mind??? :

Anyway what do you say fellas

 

[rex]

I'm about in the same boat,I can see in my head what I want but can't draw to lay everything out on paper to get a perspective of it before throwing away paint.Oh well.

Endurance,the easiest way would be spray the flames and then tape off for the stripe,or vice versa.Wiping off the overspray after taping it out isn't the greatest way to do it.

 

[Pete]

??? here.
I'm not worth a hoot at striping so the way I have been doing it is...
I lay out my flames the size I want them to be including the pinstripe.
I spray my pinstripe color with my airbrush to keep my build up as thin as possible then I come back and spray a real thin coat of intercoat just to protect the pinstripe color and then on top of the pinstripe color I lay(which ever size I want my stripe to be) 1/16" or 1/8"tape and lay the tape right next to the existing tape.
I take 1/4" tape to block off any small gaps I might have between the other two tapes just to keep overspray out.
I then come back and do whatever steps I need to do with my airbrush to layin my main flames and then carefully peel my tape and have my flame and pinstripe with no over spray.

Does this sound allright or is there a simpler or better way to do it?

It seems to work for me but I am definately a rookie.
~Pete

 

[big stinkie]

I'm no pro either, but that's the way I was taught. Seems to work pretty well. I spend a little extra time just before prepping for paint and check the tape for spots where it might be lifting...especially where tape goes over tape. I've had a few places where it lifted and paint seeped under the tape.

Here's a trick you might like. Spray your pinstripe color, but then pick another color and start at the tip and fade it back toward the base of the flames a couple of inches or so. Then go about it like you normally do. You end up with a pinstripe that fades from one color to another.

Just one of those little tricks that add a touch of 'cool' to a job.

 

[big stinkie]

An artist is anyone that is good at what they do. Could be a welder or a computer programmer...or a motorcyle painter! You're more of an artist than you think, Rex. Not only can you apparently paint the dickens out of stuff, you are good at explaining the process to us amateurs.

I tend to agree with you on the conservative side of painting flames. Often times 'less is more.' A simple, well designed job is more pleasing to the eye than a poorly desiged job with all the special effects and tricks available. I call that the 'plaster' method. Plaster enough stuff on it and it should look good.

I've tried a couple jobs where I attempted to really go nuts with shadows, flames, stripes, skulls, etc. Each one of them was terrible!

I ended up going back to basics. I just don't have the knack for that kind of work.

Personally, I'm going to stick with the basic stuff and let others do the experimenting. When they come up with a neat idea I'll steal it!

 

[Bornhard]

I’ve a question and a comment. My question is when you run that additional 1/16” or 1/8” blue fine line tape inside your graphics or flames to create an “outline”, is there a technique or some advice to keeping the blue line tape down and especially on the tight hairpin curves??? I have some lifting problems on some of the turns.

My comment...Pin striping ghost flames is a cool effect and might become the next "cool" design! I got the idea to do just that after seeing some vinyl outlined flames on a truck, so I painted a Harley snow white pearl, masked out some flames and lightly sprayed some HoK violet Ice pearl into the flame area, then pinstriped the faint flames in a dark violet. Works well smaller flowing flames.

 

[rex]

That way is a great way to do it as long as you aren't doing like a candy where you have to regroundcoat it.That groundcoat always leaves a sliver no matter what I do.

Joe,you're using that blue 3M crap aren't you.Try the green if you can't get another brand,you just have to go down a size to make the same radius.Are you going to the Ybor Bikefest?I'm going to try to run up to see Scott if I can.

 

[Bornhard]

Hey Rex...yeah I've been using that 3M starting to think it's crap tape, but I've been trying this other blue tape, brand name American Tape (still out on that verdict) & I also have some pale green tape in 1/16, 1/8 & 1/4" tape sizes. I believe that's the tape you are referring to. I also have this new brand of orange tape. Know anything about that tape? I got some, but scared to use it.

Yeah Ybor event is coming up and I had plans last year to be a vendor there this YEAR

, but going into my second year of this bike painting I got a BIG load of work & haven't prepared for Ybor. A lot to learn & nobody said it was easy! I did run across Scott and some of his work back in April 2002 @ the Full Throttle event...nice guy, but didn't exchange a lot of words.

I do think I should go up there and see what's going on though. I think a Harley Drag bike I painted might be there and I believe a Kawasaki (HoK hot pink) race bike will be there.... I did the vinyl race graphics for it (being that it's a race bike)

drop those Ybor dates for me and I will make a visit there and see if I find you guys.

Take it easy!

 

[rex]

Don't know anything about the orange stuff and never heard of the American stuff.I did try Norton blue a while back and it was better but.... I believe Ybor is the weekend of the 25th or so,Scott's got it listed in one of the 'lower' forums.Scott was in buisness mode when I saw him so I didn't get a chance to shoot the bull and I'm 45min farther away than you are to just take a cruise there.We'll have to hook up and hit the party to harrass him

 

[S. Drennan]

A note on the blue tape. I just finished my first flame job on my truck using the blue tape. I found out that if I was very careful not to stretch it AT ALL around the curves and irregular surfaces it didn't pull lose. If I noticed it pulling lose I would stick it back down by placing some 3/4" tape on top of it, letting it hang over on the side that wouldn't be painted.

A suggestion to endurance about the pinstripe. Since your painting something as small a motorcycle why not paint everything that will have the flame on it the color of the pinstripe and clear it lightly. Tape off the outline you want then paint the whole thing the orange you mentioned and clear it lightly. You will still be able to see the tape out for the flame under the orange. Mask off the entire area outside of the pinstripe by making sure that you lap your pinstripe tape about one half the width. Now you can spray in the ghosting and remove all of you tape including the fine line tape under the orange an clear the whole thing.

If you do it this way the only undesirable things you might deal with are:
(1) A barely noticeable (hairline) orange line between the pinstripe and the ghosting.
(2) You may have to apply another color between the pinstripe color and the orange to get the orange to be the shade you desire. (Experiment first)
(3) You could have a little difficulty, including pealing back the orange by leaving the fine line tape on so long under several layers of paint. (Keep your base coats and clear coats as thin as possible to try to avoid this.)

Notice the first statement I made concerning the blue tape. I've only done one flame job, last week, I'm no expert. But I had two color coats and a clear coat on top of fine line tape for about an hour with no problems.

Hope this new guy can help.

 

[Osh]

Just a thought. Why don't you just hire a striper to do it and pass the cost on to your customer or just eat the cost if it's for you. I did see a buegler(sp) stripping demo at Milwaukee yesterday and might buy one and practice so I don't have to hire that part out. Looked easier than a brush.

 

[Bornhard]

My solution to all of the above striping methods is to pick up a sword brush and practice, practice, practice…Osh has a good suggestion though, hire a good pin striper & pass the cost along. Though it is difficult to find good pin stripers now a days, because there are less and less of them. I would much rather pay a stripper,

sit back and enjoy than to sweat all these striping woos.

I’m starting to just paint my flames out, unmask everything and putting a couple coats of clear down. Wait a day or two after clear coating, I start pin striping with brush (after a beer

or two to calm my nerves) & if there are any mistakes I can remove ‘em, but you have to be thorough with your clean ups

.

If that Buegler tool is that metal wheel tool, than I will tell you that it’s not as easy as they make it look & it has it’s limits.

 

[kevsLX]

I'm with Joe, I need a couple beers in me before I can pick up the sword brush. But still I have a hard time with it. Mostly becuase I don't practice near enough. last couple jobs I've quoted I have started telling folks that an outline will cost a few bucks more, and I plan on having a pro do the striping after I have cleared and scuffed. I'm fortunate that there are a couple really good pinstripe guys local to me.

 

[79elkyss]

Did Von Dutch ever write a how-to-book on striping? Maybe its not too late to pick this up before it completely becomes a lost art. I got a chance to see him work at an auto show a long time ago and he made it look so smooth.