PPG Questions

[Stretch]

Hope someone here can help with this. I hit the local auto paint shop to pick up some primer and a basecoat to begin playing with my first HVLP gun. They suggested a couple high priced items but said I'd be ok with the following:

Kondar D23 Primer & Deltron2000 DBC Basecoat (black).

Not even into the clearcoat yet, but I've got some questions.

1) They told me to use regular paint thinner to mix with the basecoat. On the can it recommends mixing with DT Reducer? I seem to be getting a very minor orange peel and I'm wondering if it's air/paint flow or possible the paint mixture. Did the shop steer me in the wrong direction?

2) I notice the 'How-To' section mentions D763 Blue Pearl and D895 Blending Clear. Are these Deltron as well? There are so many PPG paints it's a bit confusing.

3) On my practice tank I'm not going to get the clear on within 24 hours. Do I need to start over or can I just wet sand and add the clear?

4) Is the Kondar primer OK or would you all recommend something else.

With all the numbers and letters with PPG, I may have to go look at HOK or something else to see if it's any easier to understand.

TIA-Stretch

 

[gutwrench]

Originally posted by Stretch:
Hope someone here can help with this. I hit the local auto paint shop to pick up some primer and a basecoat to begin playing with my first HVLP gun. They suggested a couple high priced items but said I'd be ok with the following:

Kondar D23 Primer & Deltron2000 DBC Basecoat (black).

Not even into the clearcoat yet, but I've got some questions.

1) They told me to use regular paint thinner to mix with the basecoat. On the can it recommends mixing with DT Reducer? I seem to be getting a very minor orange peel and I'm wondering if it's air/paint flow or possible the paint mixture. Did the shop steer me in the wrong direction?

2) I notice the 'How-To' section mentions D763 Blue Pearl and D895 Blending Clear. Are these Deltron as well? There are so many PPG paints it's a bit confusing.

3) On my practice tank I'm not going to get the clear on within 24 hours. Do I need to start over or can I just wet sand and add the clear?

4) Is the Kondar primer OK or would you all recommend something else.

With all the numbers and letters with PPG, I may have to go look at HOK or something else to see if it's any easier to understand.

TIA-Stretch

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

 

[gutwrench]

To Stretch,DON'T use Kondar its great for spot jobs but on tanks were a lot of heat is,it shrinks to fast.too much sanding involved.Use DP-401 non-sandable primers.I wet sand it anyways with the DP, but it comes out with no peel.Stick with HOK,most of it doesn't need activator,open the can and spray.But alot of it you can't wet sand.Marbles disappear with solvents(wax & grease removers).But it has to go on right the first time. gutwrench

 

[Stretch]

Good to know on the Kondar, I'll try your recommendation.

What about mixing base with laquer thinner? Doesn't seem right to me and that's more of my problem, not the primer.

Thanks-Stretch

 

[rex]

Hey Stretch.First off I'm surprised they gave you Kondar since it's lacquer based.If I recall base doesn't stick well without 1980 sealer.
1)Dbc can be cut with lacquer thinner to play but that's it,the DT should be used for the real thing.The slight peel is coming from a combination of the HVLP gun and the thinner causing it to dry too fast.It will have a slight peel when sprayed right though.
2)The D763pearl and D895 are from the better Global line Scott uses.What you have (and I use) is the Concept line.This includes DBC base,DBU base that takes a reactive reducer(EZRIDER plays with this stuff),DCC single stage and the clears 2042,2021,2002 and I think a few more I don't mess with.
3)If you can't get clear on within 24 hrs,put a coat or 2 of DBC 500 blending clear on it(same as intercoat clear).Then lightly scuff with a wet grey scotchbrite.If you only have a solid color down it's easier to scuff the existing dried base and blow another coat of base before you clear.Either way will work but the DBC500 is the way to go with multiple colors or pearls/metalics.
4)As Gutwrench said Kondar isn't good unless you're doing a lacquer job and it's going to cause adhesion problems down the road.It will shrink up but mainly because of improper use.The DP40 with 401 hardner is the best epoxy primer around,but I only use it on bare steel or sometimes as a sealer and you can sand it when dry.The 402 hardner is faster drying and you don't have to wait the 30 minute induction period with the 401.If you need primer for bodywork or taking out rough scratches DP isn't the best choice,a better choice is K36 or NCP255,but both use catalysts also and are expensive like the rest.Also I forgot to mention Kondar is not good at all to put over bare steel,as is any lacquer based primer.

I haven't used HOK yet and they do make a great product,but I'm still wondering if it is any better than PPG.I have a problem with paint that can't handle a mild wax remover and you clean up with water.It seems it's really easy to screw up too.I know the PPG system along with Scott and EZRIDER,so you have help if it's needed.They also play with alot of HOK so they're more qualified to post positives and negatives about it.Hope this helps.

 

[Stretch]

Thanks for the response Rex. I think they must have sent me home with the Kondar because I took the practice tank down to the metal (it had 6 colors of paint on it), but I used a etching primer on the metal first then added the Kondar.

I just read Craig Fraser's comments on paint in his book and think I'll stay with PPG for a while. Although PPG has so many lines I think that when I get it all figured out I'll be happier with the options.

As far as the minor peel of the basecoat, does that need to be wetsanded out or does the clearcoat cover it up? I'll get some DT and see how that helps.

Other than the K36 or NCP255 are there any other good general primers that are sandable and don't require a catalyst?

This forum is so helpful. Thanks to everyone for their continued help and assistance.

-Stretch

 

[rex]

Yeah man,any time.Compared to DuPont and the other big names PPG is the same as far as different ,lines,ie.lacquers,enamels,urethanes.HOK is a specialized custom line that deals mainly in custom stuff and they are a little more diversified in their wide selection of pearls,but you can pretty much duplicate their candies if you have access to a mixing system or get to be buddies with the paint store,or.The pearls,neons and Marbelizer are the limiting factors.I prefer PPG and think it's a better product for longevity.

Don't worry about a little peel in the base because the clear will kind of mask it.Once you get the hang of it if the clear doesn't lay down nice(there will always be a touch of peel to it) all you need to do is scuff and buff it or sand and reclear with a 'flow coat'.The DT reducer should help it lay down better but use the correct temp range.Don't try to make it dry faster by going to the next faster reducer because it actually works the opposite.Let me go through my product book for primers.I think Kondar is the best uncatalized primer surfacer offered but I need to refresh on what can go over it without causing you problems.I'll post my findings tomarrow nite.Take care for now.

 

[rex]

Ok,my book didn't have it but we had an older one that had it.DBU can be put over Kondar as long as it isn't black base but DBC must have a sealer put down first.The cheapest route is 1980 Delseal.DP can be used but there's an extended dry time involved and the Delseal is ready to spray out of the can.Again when you get to doing it for keeps forget the Kondar and Delseal.There are some decent 2 part primers from the aftermarket that are 1/4 the price of PPG's.Look through the flyer at the paint store,they usually list 2 or 3 different makes.PPG's Omni line also has a 2 part primer surfacer for probably on the line of $60?Switching to DBU probably wont be cost wise since the reactive reducer will probably cost more than the Delseal.I think DBC is a much better product when you get to the metalics but it doesn't like to be piled on with a ton of coats.They do make a hardner additive for it but stay away from it,it seems everyone has problems with it.If you do decide to stay with the Kondar and Delseal to do jobs with let me know.There are tricks to working with lacquer based products to minimize problems,but they really aren't worth it unless you're going to go lacquer all the way.Personally if you're just playing now I wouldn't even worry about the Delseal.Since this is practice who cares if it comes apart later.Once you get the hang of things then it will be time to use better products that are going to hold up.