Primer Pictures, Orange Peel whats next?

[InThinAir]

http://www.speakeasy.org/~jpierce/

Ok, here is the background. This is a Roadstar. Using PPG DP50 Epoxy Primer, shot out of a Binks 69 Conventional gun. 1st coat shot at 40 psi at the gun and second and third at 50 psi at the gun. Temparature was kind of low, but you can notice the heater in the beginning pictures. So you can see the orange peel on the close ups.

The Question is sand it smooth and finish, or Spray a coat of sandable and then sand. Sand and re-apply DP.

Also opinions on why it peeled so much would be appreciated. We have another bike to prime and would like to do it better next time.

---Doug

 

[TAZ]

Doug,
Not too bad so far

I would suggest letting it air dry for a while, then wetsanding it with possibly 1000 grit, to flatten it out some.

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One thing though...I do not remember if on the DP sealers, if you let them sit too long if they will "wrinkle" once your put your basecoat on---so one of the other readers can do some more input on this. I know some sealers do this.
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As far as why it is has so much orange peel, my guess would be that since the temp is cold, your sealer thickened up on you (it's thick in warm weather, let alone cold). I'm sure you reduced it 2-1 (like the instructions read). Well...I usually add just a tad bit of reducer in it anyway, just to thin it out a bit. I think this would have helped you out here.

It could also be other factors like your gun setup, airpressure too low...maybe a little of all.

You to just slightly over-reduce your base and clears as well. Be sure and get the parts covered. It will take more coats since you are reducing more than normal.

*Take your time* on the clearcoat. Do the "tack test". If you touch the clear, and you remove your finger and it is "stringly"...it's to soon. You want to wait until it is "tacky".

Good Luck!!!!!!!

 

[InThinAir]

Hey Scott Thanks For the quick reply! I have some more questions then...

If I sand with 1000 is that too slick for a PPG DBC basecoat? Or would I be OK?

How long should I wait to sand it if I bring it into the house to cure?

How soon should I basecoat, I am worried about wrinkling. I was planning on a week from this saturday.

Again Thanks for the Reply!

---Doug

 

[Stretch]

I tried searching for a post that someone made a few months back but couldn't find it. It really explains how to set up your gun and test it for the right paint flow amount and air pressure. It really helped me 'tune' my gun. If anyone knows which post it was it would be worth while turning into a 'How-to' page in my opinion.

-Stretch

 

[rex]

ThinAir,what hardner did you use in the DP?Most of the time there's no problem with DP itself wrinkling but it can attack inferior products it's put over.Like Scott said just sand it down,but I'd put another sealer coat over it before you base it.Mix it 2-1 like normal but use 3/4-1 part of reducer to thin it down.There's a specific reducer for this,D802 or 502 I can't remember but it says slow reducer on the label.If yo're using DBC the DT reducer will work fine but stay on the slow side like if it's 65 degrees use DT870,I rarely use the DT860 unless it's below 65degrees.If you're using DBU you can't use the DRR reducer in the DP because of the hardner in it and I'm not sure if you can use the Global reducer or not but the paint store will know(I'm thinking the D802 is Global reducer).If you're using the 401 hardner let it sit 30 minutes before use for the induction period and if you're using the 402 you can just shoot it.With the 401 I'd let it sit overnight to base it since this is the slow mix or let the 402 sit about an hour.I really don't like DPs for sealer since they stay soft so long but they do work well if you let them sit awhile.Doubling those times wouldn't be a big deal either.You can go a little courser to sand the existing DP if you want to cut time,800 would be nice but I wouldn't go beyond 600.Your base will stick fine as long as you don't use a reducer too fast for the temp and this practice actually slows down the dry time because the surface flashes off too fast and traps in the remaining solvents.

I haven't used a Binks 69 in a very long time so I don't recall it's setup or intended use,I want to say it's an undercoat gun like primers but I can't remember.To adjust it hang a piece of paper on the wall.Start with the fan basically open,your pressure about 45 and the fluid in just a bit.Hold the gun 6-8" from the paper and pull the trigger from off to fully open to off in one quick triggering,don't sit on the air only setting.Now look at your pattern and the size of the droplets on the edge of the pattern.You want the droplets to be as small as possible and maintain a good pattern.You'll probably have to do this for every different material you run through it since their viscosities are different.The initial setup takes the longest and can be aggrevating sometimes.The base should only require a slight tweak if anything,but you'll need to redo it since the clear is so thick.Running in the fluid knob for the clear should be good but you can throw another 5lbs of pressure to it if it doesn't destroy your pattern.Usually 50lbs is tops for pressure or it gives you an hourglass pattern,but occasionally 55 gets hit running something thick thru a gun not designed for it.Hope this helps.

 

[trikypaint]

I'd like to add that when looking at the pics, it looks like you have your regulator before your inline filter. That's a big NO NO in my book. Your not getting a true reading on your air to the gun. Best thing to do first before anything else is to change it where you have the inline filter before the regulator. Doing it this way will give you a true, accurate reading.
If you end up sanding it, I'd let it sit overnight before spraying to give it time to release the solvents that are under the skin that you just sanded off to save you from having more problems.
Just my .02

 

[InThinAir]

Thanks for all the input! First thing is that the Binks is the Primer Gun. I am going to use a Sharpe Platnium HVLP for my DBC/DBU. Also I used DP401LF catalyst which doesn't have a temp rating. So next time I will add a little low temp reducer. One thing is that it has been a couple of days and it has laid down quite a lot.

So I am going to sand with 1000 grit to remove any blemishes and wait another week before I put down my Base/Clear.

I knew that the filter should be before the regulator. But some how it didn't end up that way!!! Must have been the fumes!!!

Thanks again!

---Doug

 

[popo]

Isn't their a 72 hr. window on DP as a sealer?
seams after that much time it said to scuff and recoat.

 

[Stretch]

Here's the post I was searching for...

http://www.customflamepainting.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000274#000001

Helped me set my gun up and avoid the orange peel.

-Stretch

 

[Bigdan1928]

I use DP under my dbc and always spray it around 24 to 48 hrs later.I reduce it with omni reducer.For a good sealer mix it 2-1-1/2and it will flow out 10 times better.I spray it like its my base,If you can get it perfect then just wet scuff and shoot.Yhe new dp[opposed to the lead stuff,i miss that stuff]had problems wrinkleing because people shot the base to soon.Let it sit for a day then scuff and shoot.I saw a car shot black and 2 days later the whole car wrinkled!He shot the base 2 hrs after the dp.Remember that its a sealer not a primer.Dont look to build, just to''seal''and good coverage.If your looking for a sealer to shoot wet on wet,look ant the greay nason sealer.I know its cheap but it does a heck of a job and lays down like glass.Its also compatable with all paints but laqure.

 

[rex]

That's cool it's sat since you used the 401 and leting it sit longer wont hurt a thing since you're going to sand it.Waiting the 30 minute induction period with this hardner is very wise though so remember that when you mix it for sealer-actually I like to let it sit in the 2-1 mix for this period and then thin it for sealer.I didn't look at the picture you posted so sorry,but I always have a good regulator on the gun,I don't trust regulators and presure drop charts like I trust a good regulator at the base of my hand.I noticed you said DBC/DBU,if you haven't gotten it yet that's cool but don't mix the 2,use one or the other (which I'm sure you know).I'm kind of surprized at the wrinkling BigDan,I've never had the problem.Any chance of the DP being put over lacquer when it happened?That creates a real touchy situation.

Popo,DP does have a 72hr window if the 401 hardner is used but the 402 cuts it to 24 (at 70 or 75 degrees).The b!tch about the 401 is it needs to sit for 30 minutes after mixed for an induction period.I've pushed it without any major problems but it isn't wise.I like 401 over things I've stripped,but for a sealer or to put over small spots of metal for bodywork but the paint is still on the panel the 402 is much nicer.