Im working on a 1978 trans am and I am trying to get the fenders and nose to align properly. If I get everything to align properly there winds up being an 1' of shims in one place 2 shgims in another. etc. I set the door gaps to the 1/4's and lower rockers, then set the fender gaps to the doors, then set the nose on and one side of the nose sits 1/4" higher then the other. If I shim the shit out of the core support everything fits good but I used up all the old shims and had to add more. Why the heck so many shims, sould I be looking for frame damage or something or is this the nature of the beast. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif The only thing that has changed was new poly body bushings were installed and the door hinges were rebuilt.
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Rex or any other body work gurus
- Thread starter crazycuda
- Start date
R
racinrobert
Guest
frame could probalbly use a little tweak to correct it. Are the fender gaps even all the way down at the door edge?.
older cars like yours used shims liberally, just the way things were back then.
I would get the car on a frame bench and level the horns,try and lessen the number of shims.
Make sure you have the car sitting on it's wheels ( suspension loaded) when you hang your parts on the car
older cars like yours used shims liberally, just the way things were back then.
I would get the car on a frame bench and level the horns,try and lessen the number of shims.
Make sure you have the car sitting on it's wheels ( suspension loaded) when you hang your parts on the car
thanks for your replys, Yes the door gaps are even all the way down, and the bottom of the doors to the rockers are also even front to back.
Austin, All the body bushings were replaced with hard polyurathane bushings
If you look at the pict you can see how the dr courner of the nose/fender sits lower
Austin, All the body bushings were replaced with hard polyurathane bushings
If you look at the pict you can see how the dr courner of the nose/fender sits lower
R
racinrobert
Guest
I would do some measuring, make sure rails are at the same height and cross measure to check square.
if the rockers are at the same height from floor on each that would rule out a bad spring on the driver side.
just by looking at the pic it appears you should bend the left rail up a little.
if the rockers are at the same height from floor on each that would rule out a bad spring on the driver side.
just by looking at the pic it appears you should bend the left rail up a little.
Sorry it took so long.The shimming is normal and with the new bushings and rebuilt hinges it's normal to add or subtract shims from teardown.Do you know if this thing has ever been hit or been run hard down bad roads?The easiest way to check the frame yourself is just measure to the floor and compare the measurements side to side.If you check the front and rear rail ends and the front and rear torque boxes you should get a quick idea how good it is.It is normal to get a side to side variation of up to 1/4" and be normal but it's not ideal.An easy way to check for a weak spring is pick a point on the frame and one on the lower control arm/axle and compare side to side measurements there.These should be no more than 1/4" too.It's usual for an older car like this to have a collapsed spring from beatings from potholes and plain old age,the car sitting unlevel for long periods,etc.Let me know how it comes out,I'll try to stop back in over the weekend.
PS.when you measure from the floor,it has to be flat.Alot of cement floors can vary that 1/4" so keep that in mind.When I try to pick a spot of floor to do this I wet the whole area down,the water will puddle in the low spots so I can search for the largest dry spot.As the water evaporates you find the lowest spot (it isn't always the middle of the puddle).As you watch it evaporate a spot that looked too small to use might be more than large enough with only a slight deviation.
PS.when you measure from the floor,it has to be flat.Alot of cement floors can vary that 1/4" so keep that in mind.When I try to pick a spot of floor to do this I wet the whole area down,the water will puddle in the low spots so I can search for the largest dry spot.As the water evaporates you find the lowest spot (it isn't always the middle of the puddle).As you watch it evaporate a spot that looked too small to use might be more than large enough with only a slight deviation.
Rex I'll be measureing it out tonight. The car was hit on the pass side front many years ago. the subframe took the brunt(pass front horn got bent). I had the car on a frame machine and replaced the orig sub frame and everything checked out ok. According to the shop who checked it, Again this was back in 93. Since that time the car has a 468 bbc motor and run best of 11.0 in street trim. Now Im restoring the car, replaced the wornout (subframe mounts) rubber bushing with poly and changed the dr fender because it had rust. and thats the fender that is giving me the headaches. I have thought about changing fenders to see if the fender could be the culpret because it is off another car.
It could be,the jigs and stamps do wear over time.I've gotten a fender or door off something a few years different and it didn't line up quite right and there would be absolutely no damage to the rest of the car.Doors always pissed me off because you saw the old one was still lined up perfect and the new one didn't,now you have to screw around readjusting the hinges.If that rail was high I'd say that motor put a little twist in her but not in this case.If the rail does need to go up it's nothing a bottle jack or good floor jack can't handle.The bummer is having to set it in clamps to hold the car.
I measured the frame to the floor and the dr side is 1/8" closer to the floor then the pass side. (i went all the way down the frame rail) I checked the distance from the floor the center of the wheel well opening there is approx 1/2" higher on the pass side front and 1/4" on the driver side rear. I am starting to think the car has twisted for lack of a better word. Now since I put in the new bushings its really showing, what makes no sence to me is every drag car ive seen that has twisted from torque it bends the driver side up.
Maby I should take that 540 BBC I have throw it in bolt on some slicks and see if I can twist it the other way . LOL
Rex I also rechecked and the fender bolt that goes (front to back) to the firewall on the pass side no shim is needed. the driver side will need a good amount.If I tighten the bolt (dr) up the front courner of the fender will sit back where it should but the door gap is off, and the bushing between the core support and the frame gets a major gap. I also rechecked my door gaps the pass side is approx 3 paint sticks thick all the way around where the driver is a tight 2 sticks.
I guess I must add a frame machine to my list of wanted tools.lol
Maby I should take that 540 BBC I have throw it in bolt on some slicks and see if I can twist it the other way . LOL
Rex I also rechecked and the fender bolt that goes (front to back) to the firewall on the pass side no shim is needed. the driver side will need a good amount.If I tighten the bolt (dr) up the front courner of the fender will sit back where it should but the door gap is off, and the bushing between the core support and the frame gets a major gap. I also rechecked my door gaps the pass side is approx 3 paint sticks thick all the way around where the driver is a tight 2 sticks.
I guess I must add a frame machine to my list of wanted tools.lol