Sanding & Buffing My Way.

Brian Dee

Super Moderator
Colour Sanding And Buffing.
Well you have spent many, many hours doing bodywork, filling, priming, blocking, sanding, basing, and clearing. The list goes on and on. Finally it’s complete, or is it. Noooo, it has to be colour sanded and polished (buffed) for that three foot deep shine. But where to start. There are many different theories on this subject, and apparently they all work the best. But I will tell you what I have been doing and products that work for me. So you can decide for yourself if you want to try it.

Once the clear coat has been applied you will no doubt have some a little surface contamination
and some orange peel on the surface. This surface contamination such as dirt and dust particles can be greatly eliminated by wearing a shoot suit with a hood. As most of this contamination comes off you
the painter..

Now you are ready to sand the surface. After waiting the appropriate amount of time for the clear to dry. Best to follow the manufactures directions on this. But 24 hours is a safe bet. I will usually start with 1000 grit paper. Remember to soak the paper in water before using it. This will soften it slightly, and prevents the edges of the paper from adding unwanted scratches to the surface. You can also add a little dish soap to your sanding water to help lubricate the surface. I use surgical soap, as it does not have any additives, such as oils, perfumes, or phosphates in it. Start sanding the surface with the 1000 grit until surface takes on a dull gray sheen to it. You maybe able to start with finer grit, if the clear coat is free of orange peel.
But starting with 1000 will get rid of that orange peel. If it is really bad, you may want to start with 800
to slightly knock it down the surface. Go carefully with this girt, and stay away from ridges and sharp corners, then go with the 1000. Or you maybe able to right into jump in to 1500 or even 2000 grit. right off the bat It just depends on what the clear is like to start with. Just remember you want to level the surface. When you’re sanding, go in one direction, not in circles. The reason being is as you use the buffer, which has a circular action to it, it will move across your sanding pattern at a
right angle. This will make it so much easier to eliminate the color sanding marks. When you’re sanding with the wet and dry. Or even before you start this process make sure what ever you are sanding is clean, really clean. You don’t want any dirt or grit to get between your paper and what ever you’re sanding. I guarantee this will ruin your whole day. And what ever you do not lay your paper on a workbench. I assure you that you will get dirt particles contaminating the sand paper. Just keep it in you’re bucket of water. So now you’ve gone through the process of using different grades of paper from 800-1000 right up to 2500 if you want to. Using 2500 or even finer will certainly reduce the amount of time you spend with a buffer in your hand. Just remember to take your time and get rid of all those micro scratches. When all said and done you will certainly be glad you did. Well it’s time for the show finish to come to life.


Buffing/Polishing.

Here’s where everyone has his or her own perfect way to buff and polish. There are so many compounds, buffers and supplies out there it’s very confusing for the first timer doing this. In the past many shops had and used different grades of compounds, buffing pads. and who knows what. That made it very easy to grab the wrong pad or compound and cross contaminate. The results could and were very often disastrous. Buffing machines were and still are another story. I hear all the time I just use an air grinder and turn down the pressure to control the rpm. Well I have news for you. That maybe very well the case. But doing this will greatly decrease the torque of that 20,000-rpm monster. This is definitely not what you want. So get your self a proper machine. There are a number on the market that will do it for you. But the most important thing is that it has to be a variable speed. Look for one that will operate from 800-1000 for the low speed and no more than 1900-2200 for the high. Using anything that will turn higher than this and I will guarantee you will burn through the clear coat. Just take your time and you’ll end up with a show finish


Well. as for the buffing compounds, that’s where everyone has their opinions on this subject, and it is a broad one. Personally I use Wizards or System One. With these two products you need only two pads, one for the initial cut and one for the final buffing. Each of these compounds wears itself out as you use them, so there no real danger of blowing through a clear coat or a burn through. But still stay away from high ridges. The reason I use either one of these compounds is one, the ease of use, and no fillers in them. So micro scratches don’t come back to haunt you. You don’t need to glaze after buffing, as there are no swirl marks to be seen. It’s a chemical cut rather than an abrasive cut. This is what works for me, but I’m sure you have your own methods, and they may work just fine for you. But if your not happy with your finish, give this method a try. I know it will make you smile. Just thought I’d pass on a little info. Oh. forgot.
Have fun.
 
T

TAZ

Guest
Great write up Brian!
Definitely the variable speed buffer as you mentioned!!!
When buffing, I personally like 1800 RPM's on the open spaces and 1600 on the tighter spaces. I normally just slow it down to lower speeds using the trigger.
 

hoss

New member
great post brian.

on my buffing i've gotten into dry sanding w/ the DA. i've been using the hook it (i think) velcro backed 3m pads w/ 1500 grit and foam backing plate. by dry sanding the first step, i can see everything and get it smooth and ready for the next step quickly w/o squeegieing, just make sure it's a cleeaaann surface!!.

the next step i do is the 2000 wet by hand followed w/ the exact buffing sequence.


many, many ways to do it, but this one really sped things up for me.
 
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Brian Dee

Super Moderator
good post Dirk. Yep there are several way of doing this, Ya just have to go with what works for the individual. But yes your correct in saying you have to keep it clean. Thats all you need is to get a piece of grit between the paint and paper. Been there done that. That dry sanding you mentioned works well Have you ever tried the trizac system. They work great to,but oooooo expensive.
 
T

TAZ

Guest
I've also used that Trizact system, and it's good in ways and not so good in others. I was told from the get-go that it would speed up the wetsand/buffing process....well, you also have to know what you are doing. Obviously guys like Dirk it works better than the 'all wetsand' method.
I've had employees, use the DA paper and the trizact, and still take 3-4 hours to do a 3 piece set (i.e. Fatboy). I can wetsand and buff a set myself with the normal 1500 in 1 hour 15 minutes.
So, as far as the cost to use it, it's not worth it in my case. I'd rather for a guy to spend 3 hours just using a piece of 1500 1/2 sheet, than spend the time and materials on the trizact.

We normally do our 'first' buff the next day, so using a 1200 grit DA clogs up QUICK!!!!

If you can let the paint cure for at least 2-3 days before you start buffing, then yes, this will probably work out for you.

And yes, Dirk is right, when you use the dry sand, then it shows up any dirt specks and fish eyes nice!!!

I've also noticed that the Trizact shelve life is only good for so long. I did a car and decided to use 1200 dry, then the Trizact...well, the front facing just fell apart after about 1 minute of sanding. My supplier and 3M gave me a new box of it.
Plus, I heard 3M is changing all the pads/paper once again...possibly Hook-it 3? Which means, new pads, outdated paper and I bet...more cost!
:sillyme:

I would say it would the system would work decent if you do cars, but for motorcycles, I still think good ole' wetsand 1/2 sheets work a little better for the motorcycle parts...at least for me!!!

Call me ole' school, but I can get 'er done quick!
:drink:
 

Brian Dee

Super Moderator
yep there ya go. Gotta use and do what works for you. Sure nothing wrong with ole school. Love the stuff.
 

hoss

New member
good post Dirk. Yep there are several way of doing this, Ya just have to go with what works for the individual. But yes your correct in saying you have to keep it clean. Thats all you need is to get a piece of grit between the paint and paper. Been there done that. That dry sanding you mentioned works well Have you ever tried the trizac system. They work great to,but oooooo expensive.

nope, never heard of that before, i'll check it out.
 

gtc73

New member
Hey guys!,
just finished laying down my final clear coats on my bike tins. So I searched for some tips and advice and got what I am looking for from this post so thanks very much for that.

Question....I've heard the phrase "while the clear is green" used.

Could some of you expand on this a little for me? I understand there is a window of time when the clear is at its best for wet sanding and buffing? does it vary from clear to clear brand? My tins are roughly 48 hours dry at this point. I used (because I had plenty left over) the 5 Star Xtreme Klearkote to do the job. The specs on the clear state 16 hours drying time.

At this point I am assuming it is very ready for wet sanding. And once I am done with that I'll be ready for buffing.

Is there a time frame? when it is more likely not to achieve a deep clear shine. I want to be sure I am within that "green window" while the clear is very managable, vrs. rock solid right?

thanks for any feedback!

g
 
T

TAZ

Guest
I haven't sprayed the 5 star clear so I'm not for sure how fast or slow that dries. We mainly use House of Kolor clear.

Normally we wetsand the next day or 2 days after. Some clears you can wetsand 3-5 days later and it's not that bad. You can wetsand and buff any clear 5+ days after you spray, but some clears will be harder to wetsand and buff than others. Also, the weather has alot to do with the cure time. Lately it's been cold down here in FL, so we've had to wait a min of 2 days before buffing.

I've wetsanded and buffed 'tacky' paint before, but it's easier to burn or go through the edges.
 
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