Waterborne? Who is using it now?

[fiftyfourd]

Curious to see you guys' feeling on the new waterborne systems. I just got back from DuPont Cromax Pro WBC training in chicago, stoked to switch our shop over next week.

Every color is 1.5 coat coverage from a standard color, to for Torredor Red to high metallic silvers....makes it so simple/efficient. By the way, I NEVER thought I would be excited about the waterborne and definitely was reluctant to believe the coverage they were promoting. After demoing it, I'm now a believer and would be hard pressed to go back to solvent basecoats.


What are your guys' views on it?

 

[TAZ]

I have not used the waterborne type paint yet. But I have a friend that is a rep for a jobber that sells waterborne systems. He says painters basically feel the same way you do.
Reluctant at first but after a while, they say they will not go back to solvent type systems....

So that's great to hear from not only him, but you as well.

 

[fiftyfourd]

In our class we sprayed a Honda silver that was super high metallic, and it was seriously one coat 8" away 75% overlap, then their "half coat/effect coat" 14" away 75% overlap and it was done. One coat for coverage, then what they called an 'effect coat' for metallic orientation.

Then he added like 3 grams of high strength blue pigment to blend when we were learning how to blend it(which is backwards of how you do in solvent base) and it was easy to blend it in.

And spraying 801J White Diamond from GM, couldn't be easier now. It basically makes basecoats/tri-coats idiot proof: no striping no mottling, believe me we TRIED to screw it up to see if we could.

 

[bondofreak]

Thats encouraging news esp with Dupont changing names. I have seen the you tube video on the Dupont website spraying the water. Wonder what a half pint of water compares to a half pint of chromabase solvent.

All the effect coat looks like to me is a glorified drop coat.....name just changed

 

[fiftyfourd]

When we were out at their Chicago training center, I talked to one of the guys that actually helped develop Cromax with DuPont. He said Carlisle Group(which purchased DuPont Performance Coatings) is going to have nearly 100% retention rate, they are keep all DP chemists and whatnot. So to the best of his knowledge, the only change is the name, I had heard its something like Exalta Coatings(not sure if that is the correct spelling) is what the name will change too.

And the 'effect' coat is just another name for a drop coat, simliar to the older Imron metallics. Quick example, we did 4 honda accord front clips in class with less than a quart sprayable of silver, so coverage seems to be better than ChromaPremier basecoat which was better coverage than ChromaBase basecoat. I will look if i remember, on the coverage sq. inch per sprayable ounce for a comparison.

 

[TAZ]

Encouraging to hear!

 

[bondofreak]

Cool!!!!!

 

[VisioN]

Interesting to read, i'd be curious to see how fine these water base paints can spray through an airbrush!

 

[Trashcan Stan]

Interesting to read, i'd be curious to see how fine these water base paints can spray through an airbrush!

I can't comment on the DuPont stuff but I have been using a different manufacturers water based stuff for years. Spraying through an airbrush is beautiful. I won't use anything else. Reduced and pressurized correctly it is the bee's knees.

I've been using water based stuff for well over ten years at this point. It is all I use. Won't use anything else. Controllability is incredibly high. Flash time is low. Clean up is a breeze. What overspray? And the finished product is just as good as anything else.

But, that is just my opinion. You will probably need to ge3t your hands on some and practice with it for a few hours to get a feel for it. I love it. Most people hate it.

 

[fiftyfourd]

How can you hate it?! I'm so excited to get it in our shop this week, after going out to Chicago for certification/training. It makes everything easier, blending tri-coats, blending metallic, and just painting in general. No more stupid colors like Ford E9 or GM 817K or nearly any vivid/bright yellow that doesn't cover worth a darn. I am looking forward to seeing how much cleaner paint jobs will be, since you won't have the ability of the dry basecoat dust coming back up in your clear since its wet overspray onto your masking vs dry dust by the time it hits the paper. I will admit, I was hesitant/resistant to go with it, but they were right, after you try it you'll wonder why you have waited so long.

 

[DonDada469]

That's odd, in my shop we tried the conversion for a few weeks and they hated it so much that we went back to VOC compliant solvents. I remember their complaints being cure time was longer and color matching was more difficult. (We repair and paint rims only)

 

[Barbie Princess]

i have never used waterbourne, does it fry up on rub throughs?

 

[TAZ]

That's what was mentioned, that no one liked it at first, but once they learned it, they wouldn't go back to solvents.
15 days sure isn't long to learn anything new. Maybe the guys just didn't have enough time to get to know it better.
I had heard the color matches were excellent though.

 

[fiftyfourd]

i have never used waterbourne, does it fry up on rub throughs?

haven't run into that yet, usually if we really have to scuff/buff things pretty heavily(like our show cars/restorations) we have 4 coats of clear on it. The clear we use lays out pretty nice, so on collision work its usually just nib sand and buff.

That's what was mentioned, that no one liked it at first, but once they learned it, they wouldn't go back to solvents.
15 days sure isn't long to learn anything new. Maybe the guys just didn't have enough time to get to know it better.
I had heard the color matches were excellent though.

Exactly, I didn't like it at first when we were at class to learn/become "certified by DuPont" but once you get it down its awesome. The dry time thing, we have blowers to speed it up so really we don't lose time over solvent when you figure how many coats some colors need.

It is especially nice when painting an entire car yellow, 2 coats and done(not like 5 with most solvent based yellows.) I know I'm a little biased, but from talking to other shops that tried the other WBC, they said that they were having to do numerous coats(4 or more) on every color so they hated it. The system we use has extremely good coverage. We have yet to need more than 2 coats on any color, and have way better color matching than with solvent based.