What I've learned

[wammied]

What I\'ve learned

Well, just finished my first major paint job using modern uro's (used to dabble in lacquer yrs ago) with the help of this board.
Redid a '73 Honda CB500/4 in HOK rootbeer candy over ko-seal II metallic primer surfacer.
The tank has black side panels surrounded by a white/black/white stripe. The candy is on top of the tank.
I've learned several things (mostly 'cause of a lot of mistakes!)
1. Always make sure tape between highly contrasting colors is stuck SUPER good. To the point of burnishing it down with a plastic key fob or something just before you shoot.
2.NEVER shoot metallic in a booth you intend to shoot clear over black in!
3.ALWAYS wet the floor before base or clear.
4.Get a piece of sheet metal and keep it painted at the same stage as the job. That way you can adjust your gun accurately, not using your parts as a guinnea pig.
(especially helpful when it comes time for flow coats)
4. Develop a routine, mine is: wet floor, mix paint, clean parts with glass cleaner, tack cloth, blow off with at least 80 psi.
5.Don't be stingy on the base or clear coats, if you're going to be sanding, add twice as many because you WILL BREAK THROUGH! Breaking through is by far the biggest set back you can have. (right Rex?)
I learned a lot more than that and I'll learn a lot more.
That's all for now.
Thanks for all the kind advice offered on this board.
Regards,
Mike

 

[Bornhard]

Re: What I\'ve learned

I justs have to add. Most people only have one area to spray in, so you will have to spray metallics, black and clear in the same area. I asked rex a little while ago for some insight from him on sparying clean black and of course the clear has to be just has clean. I would like for him to post that advice, because I picked up a few helpful tips from him.

Also I'm not too sure about putting window cleaner on urathane paint. I use a squirt bottle with denature alcohol and water (1 to 1 ratio).

With everything else it looks like you're on the right track.

 

[wammied]

Re: What I\'ve learned

I got the glass cleaner tip off of a flame painting video (HOK?)
Haven't had any probs with it.
I do know one thing, wax and grease remover eats into uncatalzed bases and intercoat clears ('nuther thing I learned)
Next time I shoot flake, I'm going to split my booth in half, using the exhuast end of the booth.
This will keep the upstream area cleaner for clear.
Regards,
Mike

 

[rex]

Re: What I\'ve learned

I think I still have that conversation with Joe in my mail so I'll get it tomarrow and copy it over.I will throw you a few tips on your observations though.

Q1: /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bigokay.gif
Q2: Not a problem if you pay attention to tomarrow's post and don't point the gun at the floor unless absolutely necessary.Even though I use a downdraft booth there's still crap that can be blown around.My bike parts are either hung or placed on stands high off the ground,it's not uncommon for my gun to be above my shoulder shooting the top of the parts on stands and hung parts are in my face.
Q3: Good idea but don't get carried away in hot weather,it'll be evaporated so it's basically useless and the evaporation causes humidity,I've actually seen basecoat blush because of it.
Q4 and the second Q4(busted): both good ideas.Once you get used to things you can just hang a piece of paper on the wall (or on a car use one of the windows) to do a pattern check,you'll know if something is wrong.Your way is great until you get to know your gun like the back of your hand.
Q5: Be careful here.You want everything as thin as possible.Only put as much base on as necessary,if your base is getting trashed stop and let it flash good,then lightly sand it with 1000 or so and recoat it to adjust the pearl or metallic or to guarrantee coverage on solid colors.I rarely touch my base other than tacking it off before clearing.If you want to throw an extra coat of clear on to buff that's cool.If you're burrying a tape edge,I go 4 and sand it then 2 more coats.Take your time sanding the edge out and stop when it's gone and move on,don't keep hitting that area.Leave the body lines and edges for last and lightly sand these.I just skip over them to melt into the sanded area and finish them off with a scuffy pad.Same is true for color sanding to buff but don't touch the edges at all with paper and stop sanding 1/2" before the edge and that point should only be 1/2 sanded,kind of feathered from no gloss to full gloss at the 1/2" mark.That buffer will knock paint off an edge as easy as paper will.

The glass cleaner is basically wasting your $ and time.As long as you use grease and wax remover before starting you should get no contamination.If you're doing grafix and touch it there are mild G&W removers for this,but the alcohol and water mix works from what I'm told.The glass cleaner is supposed to de-static it but I use an alcohol based plastic prep (ppg dx103) and you just mist it over the part lightly thru a gun,never wets the surface and no static.Really all you should have to do is degrease it,tack it,seal it and tack again(optional),base it,tack it,clear it.You can tack between coats of base but that's kind of overdoing it.The metallic problem will be in tomarrow's post.Keep up the good work though,no matter how much someone tells you how to do it and what to do you'll only learn by doing and having mistakes.I'll admit after 20+ years of this stuff I still mess up at times because I'm not paying attention and they're usually big ones.Watched my sealer wrinkle like gator hide earlier this year,and mixed up some clear one day and luckily I did a pattern check because one minute after I dumped it in the gun it came out like jello,would have been real P'd if I just started clearing the base.The moral here is make sure you use the right hardner for the product-oops.

 

[wammied]

Re: What I\'ve learned

I really appreciate your input guys.
Thank you from the bottom of my gravity feed cup.
Yeah, I had visions of bang, bang, bang, bang, primer, base, candy, clear. Then I received a huge dose of reality.
Seems that every step of the way, I caused some kind of problem.
Usually by not paying attention for a split second, being distracted, wrong frame of mind, NOT going back to that spot I just sanded, etc.
However, using my usual bull in the china shop approach, I beat the job into submission and overall am very happy with a near-flawless job.
Amazing what can be fixed with a ton of patience, the right attitude, and above all, the help of the kind people on this board like you guys.
Of course, eventually I would like to get it done with finesse but hey, ya' gotta start somewhere.
I'll definately keep an eye out for your post.
Cheers,
Mike

 

[Bornhard]

Re: What I\'ve learned

Attitude and right frame of mind go along way in custom painting! I have stopped on a project in the afternoon, because I wasn't in the right frame of mind for whatever reason & then got back to it the next morning. I've rushed things to get them finished that day while I wasn't focused and I'm usually spending the next few days redoing what I screwed up. I hate to put things down sometimes, but I will say that working on things when you're focused is the way to go in my opinion.

On the other hand you can't let too much get you off track and away from getting a project completed. Save those early afternoons off for when the customer is being a prick. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/bigokay.gif

 

[rex]

Re: What I\'ve learned

Mike,I finally found it.Remember this is a little different discussion but the basics apply to your situation (and I was 1/2 ripped at the time I wrote it):

"Black is a bitch for sure.I don't do what you do so it's a little easier for me,but I do get pearl and metallic float.If i'm 2toning or doing a scooter I let the base set up real well and cover it the best possible.When everything's dry and I unmask and tack it off I look real close for those spots that floated around.I like those sticky yellow tackrags but you need to be light with them.After I tack it off I start looking close and if I see anything I grab a new one to tack the black off with and look hard again.If I get a spec that won't come off I grab a piece of 2000 and lightly scuff it out.A coat of intercoat over the black helps over the black but I rarely use it.What is a good idea is to blow a coat of intercoat over the area you just did to lock down any loose stuff on top.I did my buddy's tank in Iris black pearl and did the flames in a sparkle silver PPG base tint.I forgot to base clear it before untaping and when I topcoat cleared it 2 of the tips at the point slid leaving a few metallic specs and there were a few more just sitting on top the tack rag didn't get and they blew off while clearing.I managed to pick most of them out with a blade but I'm going to have to stripe it later on to hide the few I couldn't on the tips.The whole deal would have been solved if I didn't forget to intercoat it.I haven't had a prob with my gun spitting anything in a long time but I have a dedicated clear gun and I have a gun cleaner at work.When I was running one gun for everything I just made sure I flushed it really good and then I'd blow an ounce through it.If it was a situation like you're talking I'd throw a few more ounces in and look in the cup to see if anything's floating in it.I'd give it a few seconds and shake it up and look again,then blow it all through.Add a little more to come up in the cup and you should see nothing by now,and blow it through.It was rare I had to go to this much work with what I do but it was real clean then.Another trick is when you fill up with clear let the gun sit a minute (on a gravity feed) so anything will settle into the head and blow the first little bit out to make sure it's gone."

If you don't 'hard tape' the whole thing and use paper to cover larger areas expect some floating,Murphy's Law.One gun for everything can bite you so make sure you clean it well,that's my approach but other cleaning methods will work.Remember the floor deal too.if the overspray is there you don't want your work close to it in case you blow on the floor.Doing the flaking near the exhaust and clearing by the intake is also a good idea,but more insurance than necessity.What Joe said is true too,don't be distracted or out of the mood to do it because probs will pop up twice as quick.

 

[wammied]

Re: What I\'ve learned

Once again, excellent practical advice ready to use.
I like your idea of letting The gun sit and then spraying that first little bit.
Seems like I would have a game plan worked out but as soon as I mixed that paint everything went out the window.
Kinda like buck fever.
Then I decided that the paint had to wait for ME.
What the heck, it's gotta pot life over an hour.
Funny, once I took on this attitude I was much more relaxed and less intimidated allowing me to spray my flake and candy smoothly with no mottling.
I do have two guns, one I use for primer and flake the other for base, candy, and clear.
I am fanatical about clean guns. I percolate and then take it apart everytime.
I shot the black o.k. (probably had flake contamination but it was buried in black so I couldn't see it?)
It was when I shot the clear that it really showed up. Just a few specks here and there but they're evenly disbursed and my girlfriend even thought it was intentional and loooked cool so I just left it. I have to agree, it does look o.k.
Also, it's not like the guy is paying me a ton of money either!
I did the whole scuff and buff thing and caan't believe I didn't bust through anywhere.
Did it the next day and it was fast and easy, even from 1500 (mind you I am not going for the 'ultimate' show finish, yet, but next time I will!)
Then I hand polished and glazed and I am just stunned by the shine!
Got a camera for the weekend, expect a plethora of pictures portraying my palace of paint and parts therein!
Thanks again,
Mike

 

[rex]

Re: What I\'ve learned

Sounds like you have a pretty sound routine going on.Can't say why you got the extra flake going on without specific details but it worked out great from what you said.Be careful about stripping the gun often for cleaning.If you have a seal between the tip and body or diffuser ring that's cool because they're cheap to buy for insurance but too much retightening of the tip will pull the threads in the aluminum body.If you have a hard seating of the tip and body it's even worse.Using one gun for multiple products taxes the cleaning chores but pull the tip as little as possible,a real good cleaning is much better.Actually clear seems a better indication of cleanliness than the thinner deal in the copied post,if anything's in there you'll see it track up to the top of the cup when you fill it.If you see this happen it isn't bad on just clearing a base but if you're changing to a pearl or candy you have to let it settle and purge it out and then you know you need to be a little more particular about cleaning.I wont run surfacer primers thru my good guns,that's what throwaway guns with the proper tip are for,they're just too hard to thoroughly clean out.I also believe in at least a dedicated clear gun.Nesco is making an Iwata copy elcheapo gun for about $100 now but the ones I've seen are a 1.8 tip,they're meant for primer but that's way too large a tip.If I can get one down around a 1.5 I'm buying 2 just for primer and straight DP.