What Paint?

mpdive

New member
I posted earlier about adding a wide vinyl stripe and have taken the advice of many to just paint it on. My neighbor is a auto painter and great detailer and said he would be glad to paint the topside stripe on. I have spent the last couple of hours looking online for marine paint. He told me to order a 2 part polyurethane. Is there any difference between ordering marine 2 part or going to an auto paint store locally to purchase a 2 part? I saw Imron at some local stores and have a feeling there is not much difference between the two. If not, what would be a good two part to purchase? What is House of Kolor? Sorry for the newbie questions but I dont want to over bother the neighbor with the small stuff. Thanks again for the help!
Mike in Augusta Ga
 

mpdive

New member
I posted earlier about adding a wide vinyl stripe and have taken the advice of many to just paint it on. My neighbor is a auto painter and great detailer and said he would be glad to paint the topside stripe on. I have spent the last couple of hours looking online for marine paint. He told me to order a 2 part polyurethane. Is there any difference between ordering marine 2 part or going to an auto paint store locally to purchase a 2 part? I saw Imron at some local stores and have a feeling there is not much difference between the two. If not, what would be a good two part to purchase? What is House of Kolor? Sorry for the newbie questions but I dont want to over bother the neighbor with the small stuff. Thanks again for the help!
Mike in Augusta Ga

Sorry. Just realized I posted this in Pinstriping
 

TAZ

Administrator
Staff member
Actually, most lines carry a single stage urethane. So you could go to a local jobber and order whatever line they carry (i.e. PPG, Dupont...). You may even want to go ahead and ask your painter what brand he prefers. Then go from there.
:bigokay:
 

mpdive

New member
Actually, most lines carry a single stage urethane. So you could go to a local jobber and order whatever line they carry (i.e. PPG, Dupont...). You may even want to go ahead and ask your painter what brand he prefers. Then go from there.
:bigokay:

Thanks for the reply Taz. I was looking last night and noticed that the one part is much more readily available locally. The painter said that the two part is more durable but in my opinion, a good bang against the dock would tear up any paint. If a one part is half decent as far as durability goes, I might just go with something like Interlux top side paint. Thanks for taking the time to respond. It is greatly appreciated.
Mike
 

TAZ

Administrator
Staff member
You may have gotten the two confused.

"Single Stage" means no clearcoat. You spray it and you are done. No clearcoat required.
All these do require a hardener.
Looks like you thought single stage meant no hardener
 

mpdive

New member
You may have gotten the two confused.

"Single Stage" means no clearcoat. You spray it and you are done. No clearcoat required.
All these do require a hardener.
Looks like you thought single stage meant no hardener

Thanks Taz. Yea the whole paint thing confuses me as much as the VCR flashing 12:00 all the time does! Taking the boat Saturday to the neighbors body shop to have a two part urethane sprayed on. Cant wait to see how you PRO's actually do this. Thanks for taking the time to reply. Your time is much appreciated!
Mike:moon:
 

TAZ

Administrator
Staff member
:luck:
Sounds like he's a good painter, so I'm sure you'll get a super job!

:bigokay:
 

PARyachts

New member
I was searching around looking something specific and found this site. I noticed some incorrect information so logged on.

A 2 stage paint doesn't mean it's over coated with a clear coat. It means the paint requires separate elements employed, before it's ready to shoot. The discussion here has been about 2 part LPU's (my assumption), but an LPU doesn't have to be clear coated. Simply put, paint systems have gotten pretty sophisticated in recent decades, so drying agents, wetting agents, activators, hardeners (yeps, there's a difference between these two), reducers, etc. might need to go in the paint.

In fact, you can use a single stage paint and over coat with another single stage clear or possibly (depending on formulations used of course) a 2 or more stage paint. Currently I work with single, two, three and more stage paints. The stuff I like the best is a 4 stage and this is before I apply any clear.
 

TAZ

Administrator
Staff member
Welcome to the forum -

So you are saying 2 stage (or 2 step) does not mean there is a first step, then a second step?

I always thought a tri-stage (3 stage or 3 step) meant a base, a mid coat and a top coat.
So you are saying a tri-stage requires 2 extra 'elements' before it's ready to shoot.
And a 4 stage requires 3 extra elements before spraying. What are the 3 extra "elements" you are referring to?

Single stage clear? Never heard of that either.

Also, you are stating that you can take a single stage paint (which in your definition would mean it does not require any hardener), and directly coat it with a 4 stage paint (which in your definition is a paint that requires three extra elements before spraying). Why would you want to do that?

what is your definition of 2K primer?
 

mpdive

New member
php8wma3dPM.jpg Since the thread was revived, I posted a pic of the finished product. It turned out great. Thank you Taz for the great advice!!!!!
 

fiftyfourd

New member
I think i'm on the same page as you Taz. Single stage is something like(for DuPont at least) Imron Elite, Imron 3.5, etc..where you don't need a top coat. But 2 stage is like a base/clear application and 3 stage is base, mid coat(pearl/metalflake, candy, etc.)and clear. But 2 part paint would be a paint that needs activator, 3 part would be mixed paint color+reducer+activator for example. That is what my train of thought as well as every other painter I know and have talked to uses for terminology. 2k primer is 2 part: primer+ activator/reactive reducer/ reducer(whichever your line calls for).
 

TAZ

Administrator
Staff member
Super sharp! Thanks for posting the pic...probably a great inspiration for other fellow members!

:bigokay:
 

PARyachts

New member
. . . So you are saying 2 stage (or 2 step) does not mean there is a first step, then a second step?

. . .

A two stage paint of course means there are two elements, typically a catalyst or an activator (no they are not the same), depending on formulation and base resin system.

. . . I always thought a tri-stage (3 stage or 3 step) meant a base, a mid coat and a top coat.
So you are saying a tri-stage requires 2 extra 'elements' before it's ready to shoot.
And a 4 stage requires 3 extra elements before spraying. What are the 3 extra "elements" you are referring to? . . .

You are making it more difficult than necessary. Simply put, a single stage paint is one that doesn't need anything done to it, before application. Now, this does mean a single stage paint might need to be cut, to get through a gun, but generally a viscosity reduction (unless it's a reactive viscosity modifier for example) doesn't count in the "stages". I currently have a friend working with some pretty sophisticated 6 part paint systems, in the aerospace industry (NASA). The type, formulation and details of these elements isn't especially important and quite technical.

. . .Single stage clear? Never heard of that either . . .

Yep, run down to your local Ace Hardware store and pickup a can of Ace brand clear urethane. It's a clear poly acrylic urethane (they have a solvent base too) and indeed is a single stage clear top coat. In fact, most of the WR-LPU's (water borne) can be used without it's activator, though it's not as hard or glossy when cured and also has less gloss retention, but it still cures and acts much like the 2 stage product it's derived from.

. . . Also, you are stating that you can take a single stage paint (which in your definition would mean it does not require any hardener), and directly coat it with a 4 stage paint (which in your definition is a paint that requires three extra elements before spraying). Why would you want to do that?

what is your definition of 2K primer? . . .

Naturally, compatibility issue can crop up, but in many cases you can over coat a single stage paint with a multi and vise-a-verse. I wouldn't try this unless you have a firm grasp of the chemistry involved.

A two pack primer is just as it sounds and a two component product, that have to be combined, before application, excluding a cut for viscosity control.

To conclude, the typical base/clear coat systems are 2k's (each). If the base has limited environmental protection, you could consider the base/clear coat as a symbiotic package, so it's technically a 4 pack. Technically, it's still a 2 pack, as the clear can stand on it's own, in regard to UV and other environmental protection, though the base may be dependent.
 

jdean

New member
Marine paint ?? is it a boat ? as long as its above the water line go w/ a single stage urethane. ask your jobber his opinion on the difference between brands. I use house of kolor exclusively . dont waste your money. any quality brand is fine for your job. Marine paint commonly known as gel coat is something I,ve had the terrible experiance of having to deal with on many occasions. thick as hell /got to mix paraffin (wax) with it.(rises to the surface to create a air proof barrier) as gel coat will NOT air dry. reduce w/ MEK and add fiberglass hardener .alot like spraying undercoating. doesn't blend worth crap, sands and buffs like a cement floor.
 
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TAZ

Administrator
Staff member
Jdean....PARyachts is stating that a 'single stage paint' is a paint that does not need any hardener.
And a 2 stage paint is a paint that requires two "elements" (as he puts it).
A 5 stage would be a paint that requires 4 other "elements"

PARyachts - what are the "elements" that you put into a 4 stage paint? I had always just put catalyst or hardener in the paint or clear plus the reducer (which you say the reducer not count against the "stages")

Since the 80's I had always known 'single stage paint' meant that was the only paint that was applied (no clearcoat)
A 2 stage or basecoat/clearcoat was a paint and then clear
A tri-stage (or 3 stage) was a base, midcoat, and clearcoat.
Looks like fiftyfourd also agrees. I also did a Google Search for 'single stage paint' and didn't see anything mention about it being a "paint that does not require a hardener".
Are you saying that all our members and Google have been misinformed?

Possibly you have "parts" and "stage" confused?
i.e
2 part paint would be one that requires hardener
a 2 stage would be a paint that requires a clearcoat.
 

jdean

New member
Huh. I,ve always looked at dupont centari a single stage even though we mixed 793 hardner w/it. obviously a base/clear ia a two stage, many later model pearls require a base/ pearl, then clear , undoubtedly a 3 stage, same as aftermarket pearls and candys. 5 stage ?? you'd be in the booth for 3 days. Christ, I just spent 14 hrs laying down a silver base /gold base graffix ,6 coats of candy tangerine / 8 coats of clear on a pro mod '66 Nova. No bull ! I thought I was gonna die. took me a week to recuperate. . I'll post some pics soon. this is a great site to learn the in and outs. nice to see so many younger guys getting into it.


h.
o.







k.
 

PARyachts

New member
Yep, you're correct, I've been interchanging stage with number of parts freely, rather than established conventions. This is partly my attempt to water things down and partly a syntax issue. I have discussions around the world and syntax comes up a lot - still my bad . . .
 

Wydir

New member
Ya I agree With TAZ I have been around paint for many years and have never heard of such things that were brought up by our new member. I would be happy to listen to the information that is to be bestowed upon us.
 
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