Just got my compressor, air line and DA

[califabricator]

Hello everyone I'm back to take the next step, if you read my last post on a failed paint job on new inferior fairings, this will be the next step.

After looking for an air compressor and weighing the type of compressor vs the cost, I finally got one. I also got a DA to start sanding off the rattle can primer i used to prep and fix some of the body work.

I have some equipment questions and concerns before I get my paint supplies and start priming. Any input good or bad is welcomed.

I got with a local distributor to see how much material was gonna cost and its not a bad hit to the wallet to include getting supplies ordered online.
Before I start purchasing material to paint on bare abs plastic fairings I want to ask:
- can I shoot plastic adhesion promoter and primer and wait to come back later and shoot base and clear
- do I wet sand between adhesion coat and add first coat of primer
- do i wet sand between every coat of primer, how many coats of each?

- I want to use Plastic adhesion , heavy build primer but where does the sealer come into play, do I need to shoot sealer before base coat ?

- what exactly does sealer do besides the name "sealer"

And once more what type of sand paper ( as far as grit ) do I order in bulk .. What is preferd with or with out holes for dust in the backing pad?

Since I will only be doing this as a hobby for now and depending on the experience I have doing this..
I want to get a kit from Finishline*
There's a kit that comes with a mini detail gun with a few tips, a large gun with several tips as well.

- to shoot heavy build primer and adhesion promo, will the mini gun work if I use the right tip ?
- will the ball filter work well at the gun for water/ moisture
- will I need a pressure gauge at the gun, what should the pressure be set at, is it product specific ?

What I ended up doing was getting a moisture/particle trap and presure gauge (installed directly out of the compressor) purchased from Lowe's . Will these work or do I need to get another type of high speed set up and set up piping in an up hill manner before the gun?

Like I said before, any input will help and would like some input before I purchase a gun kit and material..

I thank you guys !

 

[TAZ]

I've replied to your questions below.

- can I shoot plastic adhesion promoter and primer and wait to come back later and shoot base and clear

You should spray the adhesion promoter, then spray the sealer, base, clear over that.

- do I wet sand between adhesion coat and add first coat of primer

No, you spray directly over that (you can read directions on the adhesion promoter that you use)

- do i wet sand between every coat of primer, how many coats of each?

Assuming you are using a 2 part primer, you do not sand between each coat.

- to shoot heavy build primer and adhesion promo, will the mini gun work if I use the right tip ?

You can use it, but it's really not recommended. You won't get the same build

- will the ball filter work well at the gun for water/ moisture

Depends on how much moisture, water, oil there is to begin with. I would recommend using more than just the filter ball. You'll need something inline before it goes into your hose

- will I need a pressure gauge at the gun, what should the pressure be set at, is it product specific ?

I do not use a pressure gauge. I normally shoot between 25 and 50. Normally lower pressure for the basecoats, a little higher for the clears.

- I want to use Plastic adhesion , heavy build primer but where does the sealer come into play, do I need to shoot sealer before base coat ?

I use sealer right before I apply the basecoat. You do not 'have to' but I've found that it will give a nice consistent shade to spray your base over.

- what exactly does sealer do besides the name "sealer"

It gives your basecoat a nice consistent shade to spray over.

 

[califabricator]

Taz and anyone else,
first I want to say thank you for your input and patience with my questions, so far so good.
I went to my paint supplier (jobber) so to speak and it was a nice experience.
I asked a lot of questions and expressed my concerns. In the end I walked out with a better understanding of what it is I'm trying to do.
We came to the concensus that the dryer from lowes was inferior and badly placed in my system. the har 602 dryer from devilbliss was the one I was looking to get, in the end I settled with the QC3 / CAM Air filter dryer.

We also talked about how the dryer needs to be some 25-50 ft from the compressor for condensation. I have been looking to plumb some lines using the rapid air system but when we were talking about it, he told me that I can use a 50' air line from the compressor , let dangle to the dryer on the floor and from the dryer up to the paint gun. Said that the air needs to condense in and around 50' of line.

The jobber also set me up with an inline filter into the paint gun, it's not the ball type. he sold me a desiccant filter that turns pink when it needs to change out.. I figured it was a good investment towards the cash I put out in set up and materials.

I also got a gun there as well, he sold me a Finex (sharpe) gravity feed model. I have been looking it over and reading the spec sheet, (if anyone has had any issues with this type of gun please chime in ).
I asked about the mini they had there and was recommended a larger size.
I have yet to determine the size of the cap & needle/nozzle config I have and what configs I can get for this particular gun system. I think he said 1.8 size but I'm looking to see where else it would say as per the model I got.

I got some bulldog promoter to shoot out of this gun to include heavy build primer and asked the question again.. If I can wait to shoot the color after it has been primer'd? .. says " it has a minimum wait time before I can shoot another coat, there is no maximum close time" meaning I can shoot the primer and wait a few days before coming back with a color. For what ever block sand and I need to do.
Since I'm only shooting the adhesion and the heavy build primer I'm sure this gun will work and step me in the right direction, however, it will work for base/color.
Now I have other questions on
-clean up
- prep & set up to spray
- how to adjust the spray gun
- wether or not the gravity feed vs the siphon will work best

The manual that comes with the gun is pretty clear but what I want to know is:
- what are others doing when it comes to drying, piping/plumbing air

- How to properly use the mixing cups with a mixture 4.1.1.
( I looked it over and it seems easy enough, I just want to make sure

- what does it mean when technical manual says max
* air inlet pressure vs max hvlp inbound air pressure (sounds like max air to to regulator at the gun 100psi and 29 psi inbound air pressure working through the gun) it's pretty cut and dry as to how it reads I'm just trying to make sure

- what does everyone use to clean and lube the gun, I know laq thinner to clean but what to use to lube

- how to set the recommended air pressure for the cap as per recommendations for the paint or primer

And finally
- how to mix stir and pour and prep the gun for first coat of prime

Well these are my questions for now although they might sound retarded and stupid i just want to make sure on techniques and practices and I will also be researching you tube and reading threads .. I am taking my time for the set up so as to be very sure on how this gun is supposed to work with the type of primer i have.
the paint jobber said it won't be needed but I have yet to insure wether or not I need to build a make shift booth and set up an exhaust fan..however , I do have a few tac cloths to start, I asked for a pint of what ever they use for dust particles before they paint and he recommended a few tac cloths.
Again I appreciate the help and my discovery learning process has been elevated to the point I read and communicate a whole lot more than I used to..lol
Thanks
Ed

 

[TAZ]

Sounds like you've learned a lot already...good for you.

I probably won't get through all your answers as time is limited. Probably take a good 45 minutes to an hour to respond and answer your questions.

The main thing about air pressure is that, go by the directions as a guide. Spray at what you are comfortable with. Obviously a painter that has a gun at 40 pounds and sprays 12 inches away and moves slow will have different results than a painter that sprays at 40 lobs and sprays at 8" away and sprays slow. Plus gun angle. So you can see that A LOT of variables besides air pressure.

As far as the gun setup. I normally open both the fan and fluid wide open and just use my thumb to stop my trigger when needed. I normally just let the gun trigger open, meaning I do not let off the pressure. That's just the way I spray. I can slick them out VERY good to (not to toot my own horn though lol)

Sounds like the guy at the supply place really helped you out on your lines and you are doing it right. Oil, moisture and fisheyes don't sound like they'll be a problem.

Mixing cups. Put the base, primer or clear in it, Then the hardener (if needed).
, then the reducer (if needed) Of course, 4-1-1 would call for the primer, hardener and reducer.
Sometimes for clear, you might see 4-2. Normally all cups have the markings for all ratios.

Tack cloths are used to wipe down the car or whatever you are painting. Be sure and see my "Tack Cloth Tip" in the tips section.

I always just use thinner to clean out my gun. Periodically I'll take the gun apart and soak it in clean thinner.
I also have a gun washer which I use quite a bit. I believe they run about $700-$800 now.
I haven't used lube for the guns. I know they come with it, but never had an issue. I pretty much spray every day.

- how to mix stir and pour and prep the gun for first coat of prime
Mix according to directions. Mix up with a paint paddle. Put a filter over your cup. Then pour the paint in.
If your gun is BRAND new, be sure and run some thinner through it first. Make sure there are no dust, tiny metal shavings, oil or any other thing that will cause problems.

Never heard of the gun, so I really can't give any feedback on it.

I normally use 1.3 for the base, 1.4 for the clear, and I think my SATA primer gun is a 1.4 or 1.5.
I'm sure if I was limited to one gun, I could spray all three with any of the above.

Go easy on Bull Dog. That is a plastic adhesion promoter. Just a light coat over RAW plastic. If it's already painted...well, it's not a raw plastic piece. It's painted

Hi-Build primer will need to be sprayed. Then it will need to be sanded. Then you can either paint, or reprime. Don't prime, let it sit for a day, then just paint, or reprime. It must be sanded.

Too bad you aren't local, I could have you come over and I'd do a one one at minimal cost for a day. I'm in the Clearwater, Tampa area.

Hopefully, I got most of your questions!!!! :cheers:

 

[califabricator]

Naw man , you good ..
I just have a few tac cloths to start and wasn't sure of the wax remover and the pre paint wipe , I want to get some of the pre paint hoping I can do away with the tac cloths.
Yesterday I cleaned out that storage spot I have , it's 10 units , 5 on each side , mine has the center wall nocked out so I have a double unit with the landlords stuff strone about , I squared it away and built racks for that crap.. Just so there are no issues, I'm thinking of cutting the line that's strung on the ceiling and mounting my qc3 filter and chucking my lowes brand filter to it , I don't want to use my qc3 on some dumb stuff like air tools so I'll disconnect from time to time still running the lowes brand. Although I still haven't gotten my base paint and my clear I sure am taking my time getting my stuff together , patience is the hard part..
When using the wax remover and the pre paint , what type of cloths do you use ? That's the big question right now..and does it work better than the tac cloths ..
The bull dog promotor , is it a one coat or a multi coat .. You said to be easy on it , not to question you but why .. Wont it help make the paint stick better ? How many coats do you recommend, I read the instructions but experience is whole lot better..it seems like temp is gonna get hot around here , hope my adjustments won't be that bad ..
The paint jobber did in fact talk about putting my mask filters in a coffee can after I spray and when not in use, you're thoughts ?
Ed
Ft Leonard Wood , Mo

 

[TAZ]

There are three complete difference in some of the items you mentioned

wax and grease remover - used to remove...well, wax and grease before you start sanding. I use DX440

pre-paint cleaner - used right before painting after it's sanded. I nnormally blow off a car, use the pre-paint cleaner, blow it off again. Then I use a tack cloth. I use DX-330

A tack cloth is used after you final blow off a car. You use this to get any remaining particles. You will definitely need these.

As far as putting your cartridges in a can, you can just put these in a baggy. Try to remove all the air, or as much as you can.


If it's getting warm, you may want to use slow reducer or hardener (or both)

As far as Bull Dog, that is a plastic adhesion promoter. Just a light coat over RAW plastic. If it's already painted...well, it's not a raw plastic piece. It's painted.
Once you put a light coat on, the next is no longer doing it's job. You've already covered the plastic.
This is good for raw plastic only!!!
Use the hi build primer on the other parts.

 

[califabricator]

ok ...so far so good gentlemen
after finally getting all my materials primer paint and clear i finally broke down and laid down some primer. it was pretty good but im still a novice. first im going to lay out my procedure that could of saved me from having to do it all over but i guess just trying it out really was a nice experience.

1. i should of only shot one piece at a time. this would of helped in determining the number of coats to shoot as per mixing the amount of needed material. i found out that mixing too little would stretch the process with only having 1/2 pint. wasnt really worried about running out over all because the primer and the color went down pretty good, only the number of coats was on the shy side. i found this out because after shooting my clear i had trouble adjusting the gun so it would lay down correctly. then the clear was hard to see past the 1st coat. so when shooting clear:
- have plenty of light and mix enough to do three coats and keeping an eye on the pot life. so most of my trouble came from shooting clear not the primer and the base coat.

half a pint of base was plenty to know that i was gonna have trouble with the clear and then after running out of base allowed me to sand down the one little run i had of clear. next time im going to take my time adjusting the 1.4 finex to the point i have an even coverage. i admnit it was a learning experience

dont really think i needed the bull dog if i was shooting over primer recomended for the color i was using

what im gonna do is get a full pint and roll with it.

in all no regrets , however, i do need a 400/800 grit for my DA sander, does anyone know if the sell that at my local paint store?

 

[TAZ]

Glad to hear you are learning! That's the whole key to it all.
Sounds like it did work out for you.

As far as the DA paper, yes, they do have finer grits for a DA. I personally use 600 and 800. You can also hand sand with these sheets.
They are 3M. They are a purple color. Sorry, I do not have a part number for them.

 

[califabricator]

one question though, when it came to gun set up ..the air nozzle at the bottom, on the gun, is it left all the way open and adjustments to air are through the regulator on the gun to the reccomended settings..?

i seen or read something and thats how its done so to speak. gonna get my paint this week and try again. i feel that the reason it failed from the job done at the shop was after scuffing the two surfaces were not compatible.

so the clear can be sanded for re-coats after 24hrs? ..either way it needs more coats of base..

 

[TAZ]

I'm not familiar with that gun, so I really can't help you out.
You can put some thinner in the gun, and pull the trigger and play around with the fan and fluid settings. Normally the fluid nozzle would be turned out to let more fluid through.
Also, sometimes there is a air regulator on the gun, so you really won't need one if it is.

MOST of the time you can sand and reclear after 24 hours.

 

[califabricator]

ok and rgr..
just got a roll of the p600 for my DA in a stik it config.. instead of removing all the ****ty clear by hand im gonna hit it with DA then shoot more color since i had some light spots where i burned thru to the primer.

will the 600 scratches be able to paint nicely ?
using the thinner will provide accurate results for gun set up? .. i have reducer for the base , wax remover and im also not comfortable with using the fluid nozzel wide open.. is this a common practice? will i end up with over spray ? i will have to make my passes rather quick yes?

now im also looking to get a foam buffer for my DA , i think the makita i got a while back is too large for the bike parts

 

[TAZ]

Thinner, will at least give you a starting place for your gun. Normally I just open both the fluid and the fan wide open and spray accordingly.
If I don't want too much paint in a specific area, I just don't pull the trigger back all the way.
Again, since youre a noob, you can just use a little thinner just to get use to the gun and setup. I guess realistically you could just use water if you wanted to.

As far as the Makita buffer, you can use a bigger buffer if you want. I use both Makita and DeWault full size variable speed buffers to buff motorcycle parts, including small pieces like side covers, lower fairings, small front fenders...

 

[califabricator]

Yes I did try the big blue makita with the 3m three stage
"white , blue black " foam pads and polish for that system left over from the pinstripe removal on my truck. It works good but I'm not sure if its wax free, I think that's what I need for polishing after painted surface.

But I have also looked at a buffer backing for my DA sander that I want to get. Just don't know which , like wool or sponge and also which polish to use because the paint jobber has various compounds in high speed colors that I'm thinking of getting unless the 3m system is better.
I also ran into another problem. Not sure how the paint world deals with something like this. After sanding off the clear coat run that I had. that same spot started peeling away after freshly painted, almost like dry out and cracking. Then after drying and sanding it it started to rub off. Do you know what causes this ?
I will be attacking this issue tonight and this weekend ..
However , the thinner technique I used to set up the gun worked really nice on my nose piece .. Now if I can use the same technique on the clear I will be golden.
However I do need more lights ..lol I found it works better if you can see the paint being applied on a waited time period between coats as recommended, works good!

There's also a side research question I have about roll pans when they come In by mail, what type of paint should be used ? Are they easy to install and what about the hidden hitch behind the license plate. Are they easy to do ?

 

[califabricator]

Well that issue about how the color was dry cracking , I'm not sure if it was due to solvent pop or something of the sort.

Anyways .. I did a patch type job where I taped it off to where I new where there was more color. Sanded it back down enough and out far enough and when I peeled off the tape took down the lines back to the color.

Took the advice about adjusting the gun and thinner. Only this time I can see the amount of fan far out enough from the tip and then adjusted the fluid , all with the gun air adjustment nozzle wide open. Then shoot a test shot on some masking paper and finalize adjustments works freaking perfect!

Just waitning to shoot clear now once all the parts are complete with base , thanks !

Only now it's gonna take a few days because I noticed a crack on my fairings where I had melted it together and tuned out brittle so back to the lab

Never the less I will never pay for another paint job .. It's easy once determination takes over.
I still have some issues with the clear so stand by for that ..

I'm gonna start another thread concerning my roll pan for my 2002 Screw HD

If anyone has any experience with repairing fairings would like to hear what works best ..

Thanks gentlemen

 

[califabricator]

what the issue was the solvents from the base was pulling it up from the previous coats, added a little more time to flash and that solved the problem.

finally figgured out how to work the clear..lol listen when tech sheet says two wet coats that means lay it in wet ...:moon:

runs were no issue at all. however, i did have one or two on the clear, laying it in wet is hard to do if gun is not set right.


after fixing sanding and repainting not to mention blowing out an edge and having to repaint i finally got it right ..:yesnod01:

after i install my parts im gonna take on a roll pan project for my truck..so any input will be nice although my first time was a success im still a noob.


one last question on this thread, Dupont vs PPG which is best to use ..

here is some pics , i hope the paint job last longer than the body shop did for me last feb

 

[TAZ]

I personally like PPG, but I'm sure they both have their 'good' paint systems.

As far as the roll pan, I'm sure someone out there makes one for your truck to save you the hassle of making one.
I would think they come either bolt on or weld on.

 

[califabricator]

Well hell , if it ain't one it's another ..
Just found out my paint does not match what the body shop laid down .. At first they laid a new coating over some china fairings painted some type of forest green.. Good thing is I have the rest of the OEM fairings, some primer left over..
I think the reason why my paint job came out lighter was because Iaid over some grey primer and not the forest green.
So question, the OEM paint can be scuffed and primed yes? And then shoot the same color match yes?
The other parts I had to strip down to plastic and bull dog prime and BC/CC ..
The paint job is coming out nice just the details are killing me

 

[TAZ]

Yes, you can sand the original paint and paint over it.
Keep in mind, you can always take a piece that is painted to a local paint supplier and have them match it with a camera. They will get it close but you'll probably still need to tint a bit.

 

[califab]

Yes I tried that with another bike, it was a bad experience..lol
Anyways I'm seeing that the paint that was laid down is taking a long time to cure fully. I'm almost sure it's the clear coat. The base was actually pretty good. It's different from the clear. It's been almost two weeks and I can impress a finger nail into the clear not by much though. I'm thinking I need to leave it outside In The hot sun for best results.
Like the last paint job the shop did; where the fasteners attach the fairings to one another the paint in under the surrounding nylon washers krinkeld almost like the paint was still curing..
I understand the no wax rule for 30 days for a full cure but is this normal?
I'm going to paint two more side panels and I'm waiting to install the ones that are already painted only it appears to still be soft. Your thoughts

 

[califab]

Well it's been a few weeks since I had redone and completed the paint job . Was out performing my bike and now the paint is lifting in a certain area due to heat .. I'm thinking that the OEM paint was baked on and me just sanding and painting was not suitable. One of the cooling hoses rides close to the fairing and due to tremendous temps its causing the paint to lift or bubble and crack. It will be the second time repairing this issue and thought to better consult you guys here.

Question is is there some type of heat resistance primer or pre paint system I can use to attack this paint lifting in this area ? I've tried the bull dog and it doesn't seem to work .. Any thoughts would be appreciated