RATTLE BOMBS

[BIG T]

I guess anyone can get this one for me...if one were to get bold and use rattle bombs what type of good brand names are out there? Also where can I get some good examples of tribal art flames to practice with...? Thanks..
p.s. I know, I know your all cringing at the thought of someone even asking about Rattle Bombs right...?

 

[Hyme]

As you well probably here from several people soon, rattle bombs ARE NOT the way to go. I painted my bike this spring with Duplicolor spray cans and could kick myself for the wasted time. Although the finish came out well, it just is not durable. I've already made plans to paint it again next spring.

But, if your going to use a can, Duplicolor is pretty good. It has a special nozzel that fans the paint well. Maybe it will work OK if all you are doing is flames but if your going to spray an entire bike; save your time.

Later and good luck whatever you decide.

 

[rex]

If you must rattlecan it do as Hyme said.You have to remember that they have to be unhardened so you're either going to get lacquer or enamel.Neither will hold up well with time but if you need a quick fix it'll do until you can devote yourself to the real McCoy.

 

[Burton]

Here's a site for some tribal stuff www.tribals.com. I haven't been there in a while but they had alot of designs.

 

[Nate Hansen]

whats wrong with spray bombs? for guys without the cash, they work good. I know a guy whos got a shovelhead, and painted his with spray can lacs years ago, and the paint still looks really good. this bike gets RIDDEN as well, and definitely looks the part............

 

[rex]

The main problem is they can't have a catalyst to make them more durable,and there's a few little offsets to them,but you will be stuck with lacquer or enamel like mentioned.I'd use lacquer personally since it can always be brought back with a buffing or a scuff and clear.I've seen some rattle can jobs that were better than some done the right way,but you're limiting yourself if you want to do it right and have more flexibility.

 

[Hyme]

I'm a novice painter at best but I have to agree with Rex. The big difference is in the durability. I have first hand experience with "rattle bombs" because I painted my bike this spring with Duplicolor Mirage system. The paint looks great but it scratches easily and more importantly it is not solvent resistant. If you get any gas on it, you'll have some problems.

I think can paint is great for a beginner and the results can be beautiful. The only drawback is the high maintanence to keep it looking that way. Do whatever your comfort level and budget will allow. The main thing is take your time, be original, and above all enjoy yourself. That's what it is all about.

 

[Nate Hansen]

I'm not saying rattle cans are the way to go, but they do work well for guys looking for a cheap paint job regardless of the finish. Granted, I haven't gotten into auto paints yet, but when I do I'd like to use lacs. I like the fact that it uses no catalyst, not as hazardous (yeah yeah, doesnt dry as well and isn't nearly as durable, but whatever). Lacs, in my opinion, do look more like glass when polished nicely, and if taken care of last quite a while. Not to mention, from what I've heard from lac guys, they are much better for custom paint, namely less film build with a layer of paint, and you can do more tricks with air-dry paints......

 

[ezrider]

Nate i dont wanna burst your bubble, but lacs are a thing of the past, any one telling you they can get a better finish out of a Lac rather than a Uro is full of it. Any one who dose this stuff on a professional level will agree with me on that. i have a friend of mine with a T bucket painted in Lacquer and every time he looks at it the wrong way it chips

Base coats behaive like lacquers so what effect cant be done? What about the UV protection, i have seen a lot more lacquer jobs "chalk "and "Check " than uro jobs, i am not saying it dosent happen, but rarely. Lacquers are cheaper than uros so why arent we still using them today? the durability factor thats why.If you are doing a custom paint job would you want to risk the duribility? i dont think so.

 

[Nate Hansen]

I'm not arguing the durability of uros. they got it all over lacs. As for the "pros", they got a lot of work to do, and I'm thinking uros are the faster way to paint. but, for those that can afford to take there stuff to the pros, probably are trailer dudes who dont even drive their "custom" vehicles. so, I doubt durability would be as important since the vehicle isnt being driven. and I'm sure they could afford to get the thing sanded and buffed once or twice a year if it was lacs, which would put an end to the chipping and cracking, if the paint is put on correctly. I would think lacs would be good paint for home painters, who don't have the money for supplied air, high buck paint guns, high buck paint, and booths to clean the air. I also think it's good lacs don't have a catalyst, not because of the fact it doesnt harden like a paint that does, but because it doesn't contain the cancerous Iso's, at least not as much if at all.But, I am am just speculating here, because I haven't gotten into painting myself (due to lack of funds), and am only going on theory. I bow to your supreme paint intelligence.......

 

[TWISTED]

On a bike cans in the right hands can get a nice finished product. Sherwin-Williams will put thier paint in a can far you and there may be other places to get it done too. If your using cans due to lack of equipment I would suggest using lacs and taking the finished product to a good painter in your area for a few coats of good urethane clear. I have done laquer paint jobs and cleared them with urethane and have not had any problems.
As long as you take your time and do a good job on the wetsanding you will have a nice paint job when your done.

 

[rex]

Twisted,be careful of the urethane clear you chose to topcoat lacquer with,by nature they don't stick but a few will somewhat well if the lacquer is done gassing out.It sounds like you found one that will but.Years ago RM,who made the best lacquer,came out with 2K clear which was a urethane clear designed to go over their lacquer.Beautiful stiff until it chipped or you sanded through it for a repair-what a frigin nitemare then,wrinkle city and their waterborne primer made for this purpose was touchy at best for fixing it.

Nate,I won't dispute your claims about lacquer other than thickness in custom stuff.It does go on thinner per coat but to get the beautiful finish you'll end up haveing a pile of coats on which will probably be right there with urethanes.The advantage is urethanes can handle the sun where the lacquer wont at all.Another prob with lacquer(and some high $ custom jobs were ruined by) is they can't handle a rapid temp change without shattering,litterally.I do agree as said that it can't be beat for an economical home job if you're willing to do the maintanance,but it does it get old.I've also yet to see a perfect duplication of a great lacquer job in urethane,but I must say it's not something the average person will ever be able to tell.There's something about that luster that you just cant get completely.A properly done urethane job will cost less,take less time(the reason for the cost mainly) and will look 98%? as good.But don't get me wrong,I love a nice lacquer job if it'll be taken care of,but I find most people will not only not want the chore of upkeep,but they also don't want to spend the extra $ and waiting for the detail involved to do it right.When I tell someone every coat I put on will dry 1 day and we're playing with 20+ coats they look at me wierd.Then it needs to sit after that for 2 weeks before I buff it.I also tell them the price is double for all the aggrevation a guarranteed no shrink lacquer job is worth.I think my last lacquer job was done in the late 80's on a late 70s Firebird for $2500,just strip factory finish and paint,I think I fixed 2 dings in it too.

 

[TWISTED]

Rex, good point on the clearcoat. It is not typical for me to use urethane over laquer. It was only when the customer wanted a factory color and would not settle for a color match. (Harley still uses laquer for thier factory jobs)
I know I'll get some attitudes about this but, normally I use urethane (mostly HoK) for basecoats and larger graphics and mural and detail work I do with water based acrylics (Createx Auto Air). I get very good results and the acrylics hold color very well after the clear goes on. And for the weekend painter the Acrylics are less expensive and easier to clean and store than urethane.

 

[ezrider]

Your right on HD using Acrilic Laquer for the factory pacs, but it is made by PPG and they have the Formulas for all of their lines, though HD dosent have any specific paint codes and just try figuring oue one of their custom factory colors

 

[BIG T]

Hey a big thumbs up to all of you for your replys on my topic on rattle bomb painting. I noticed that a few of you made a suggestion to go with laquer...but this raises yet another ???
Does the laquer based paints actually state that on the can...like a can of interior/exterior enamel paint ? Has anyone been to an AutoZone...? They sell all diff. types of engine block colors and a clear that are resistant to oil or gas spills ...or they sell a 3 part kit of primer/chameleon/clear would this kit be laquer based ? In regards to my ??? about tribal flames...Scott or anyone do you have any links to pages I could possibly get any ideas from...Burton your web page you suggested doesn't exist...?A friend of mine said that any clear other than a rattle bomb type clear would eat through paint is this true? Well that's all for now and Thanks again to everyone all replys and opinions appreciated...

 

[TWISTED]

If you look hard enough most cans will say what type of paint they are. As for the chameleon colors I am not sure but I think they are laquer. If you go with a regular clearcoat from a spray gun it will not eat through your paint as long as it is compatible with the spray can used.
I know of a couple sites with nice flame ideas but they are other professional sites so I dont think I should post them here. Another good source is tattoo websites and magazines.
I have seen some nice design ideas on a guy named David Changs site. He paints Hotwheels cars so this one should be okay to post.

 

[TWISTED]

Sorry forgot the site.

Kustom City

 

[Mac_Muz]

I have gotta be the rattle can expert here if there is one... that is with enamels....

I would reccomend you don't do it first off!

But... I did a half and half deal sorta, and had some nasty surprises along the way.

Rattle can enamels are not always enamels.

This type of paint can take as long as 6 months to dry.

This type of paint can get you in to one wicked snaffu if you don't test it, and test it again with each chemical it will come into contact with.

Because I am new to this, and do not have a proper work shop, and DID have a wicked snaffu, it took 90 days to paint 1 gas tank and 2 side covers on my bike.

I got help here step by step, and came out just fine, but with lots of work.

Read on if you want the story...............

My bike just hit 22 years old, and at 21 needed paint again. Since 9-11 set me off, I wanted a custom job, with a patriotic theme.

My wife is an artist which helped things along, and she drew in pencil about 10 rough pics before I chose one. I gave her the ideas I had in mind verbally.

First was the chore of getting the old paint off and the plastic emblems as well.

I unscrewed those to find a dog bone shaped dents, with a steel bar welded for the screws.

I used a chemical paint stripper, which worked well, and went to bare steel.

I followed directions from here, and filled the dents, and sanded the tank out well, and filled more dents, 1, I put there, and a bunch of small ones I did not know were there untill I was sanding.

Then I used lots and lots of primer from the Rustolum company.... This takes a long time to dry..... I didn't know that then. It might still be wet for all I know right now.

I went over that with a filler type primer from plasti-coat, and worried over sanding everything out smooth.

Then with Krylon I painted the tank gloss white, and began the design, with 2 more colors of Krylon.

Once the face part (Liberty) was done, I found a laquer that was really cool, but it killed what I had done. Grrrrrrr

So save what I can of the design, and move on

At that POINT things changed radically.

I masked off the face and lost the spikes, and sanded everything but the face off to primer!

I bought Audi Champaine bc/cc system from Dupont and shot the tank with that, all but the face, and shot clear over that.

Then again with rattle cans re did the spikes, and shot clear on that.

Things were lookin up now, and I was on a roll

Next was the Testors metalic blue field with stars, so I made mask stars and stuck em on. BUT I failed to know to shoot clear on first, and the blue ran under the stars!

So after the masks were removed I had some detailed cleaning to do with a potter's tool, and scraped off all the little under runs from all the stars...ALL of em!!!

But learned my lesson.

More clear was shot, and allowed to dry, and then it was Finally time for Testors candy red stripes. So everything was taped off, and the 3-M fine line tape was placed and moved and placed and moved, which took 8 hours alone to get right.

When it was right I shot clear on it, the Dupont clear, and that sealed the taping job so the red would not run under the tape

Once that was done I shot 6 coats more clear on which leveled the job well.

I fretted over the aid my cats had lended, and fussed with hairs, but those diappered into the clear with hand sanding with 2000 grit, and then rubbing with a compound from 3-M..

So I ended up very gratefull to Scott, Rex and EZ, all of them aided me, and kept up my courage....

I got really close to flat black more than once

If yer still here readin this far, maybe you might even wanna see this bike.......

So go here if you do....... be sure to go to the 2nd page to see the bike all done as well...

http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/mac_muz15/lst?.dir=/Tank+Paint&.view=t

Mac

 

[BIG T]

Hey there everyone...again Thanks for the reply on my last post.

Since anyone who had recommended Dupilcolor for a rattlecan paint job I looked up there Web page and have talked to a customer service guy...and durability is the topic. So therefore here I am again with yet maybe another silly question in regards to rattlecans...Scott can you help me ?
The kit I plan on using is called the Mirage kit when finished it will have the look of House of colors chameleon paint it is an acrylic lacquer...so I need to know if there is a 2 part clear out there that will work on this type of paint....?

 

[rex]

I don't think there is but I could be wrong.Back in the 80s RM (who is now Diamont I think) had a 2K clear that was designed to go over lacquer but I doubt it's still available in any form.It worked great until it chipped or you had to sand through it and then the adhesion problems started.The paint companies finally realized they were ****ing in the wind with this stuff and I haven't seen it persued since.Unless someone else knows of something I think you're stuck with lacquer.Living where you do it's not as bad as us down here in the serious sun though.It will take longer to check up there and your biggest problem will be spotting and scratching from more frequent cleaning and waxing.Keeping a real good coat of wax on it at all times is important.