Single stage urethane ??

J

jdrich48

New member
Hello everyone, it's been awhile since I've visited.
Some of you may remember I painted my motorcycle last winter( first paint job). Well I just completed painting my wife's bike also. Both of which were painted using 2 stage urethane.
Well my bosses son just got his drivers license and wants me to paint his Bronco II.
I'll be using single stage urethane, and have a couple questions, having not painted with this before.

1st off, they recommend using a sealer over the primer. Money is tight, what are the consequences of skipping the sealer? I didn't use it on either of the bikes and they came out great.

2nd. On the attached PDF #1, I don't understand the circled items. Spray viscosity? And they don't list a gravity feed gun in the spray pressure section, so I assume I go with the conventional pressure.

3rd. On PDF #2(circled) they don't list a tip size for shooting the paint, and again they mention a siphon gun but not a gravity feed gun. And is the pressure correct at 60-80 PSI? when I painted my bikes the pressures were half that.
Sorry for many questions. And as always, thanks for all of your inputs. It is greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Richard

moz-screenshot-5.jpg
 
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T

TAZ

Guest
Spray Viscosity is basically 'thickness' of the paint. You pour the paint into a special strainer and it reads how fast it goes through the strainer (I believe). I've sprayed for 23 plus years and never did it this way. All paints give you a volume mix (4:1:1 or something like that)

As far as the gun you use, I've sprayed Nason a ton of times (easily 1000+ cars). I used to use a 1:8 tip, but I would recommend something like a 1:6. I used a Binks 7, but I don't even know if you can get these guns anymore.

I would suggest a Gravity feed (basically the same as a HVLP).
I used to use a higher pressure to. About 60lbs. If you have a HVLP (High Volume Low Pressure), then you don't need that much pressure.

I know Nason also has a basecoat/clearcoat type paint which is fairly easy to spray.

I've always sprayed by 'feel', so my suggestion would be to get an old fender or something you can spray on so you can get the hang of spraying the single stage.

Most of today's paints are more transparent then they used to be, so it is recommended to put a sealer or some type of 'ground coat' before actually putting the color on. It's always a good idea to use a sealer with a single stage as this will give the topcoat better 'hold out' meaning it won't soak into any 'ass-holes', primer spots, edges of paint...

You didn't mention what color it was going to be so I can't give you too much info on the sealer question.

Hope this helps you out a little....
 
T

TAZ

Guest
By the way, you can also buff single stage paint as long as you have about 5-6 coats on it.

I personally think the single stage is harder to spray than the basecoat/clearcoats. You may want to look at their basecoat/clearcoat system. I forget what it's called though.
I know Limco had the same along with Western, and possible BC (we used to call this "Butchers Choice")
 
J

jdrich48

New member
Taz, thanks for the info. The color will be close to a gun metal grey. I'm going to be shooting without a sealer so I hope this works out. Money is tight and he's already crying about the amount spent.
Again thanks for your response.
Richard
 
T

TAZ

Guest
No problem....

Sounds like 'gunmetal gray' would be a non-metallic. If this is the case, you will be fine.

If it's a metallic or pearl type paint, in certain lighting conditions, you will probably see through the paint if the base has primer spots or lighter spots, or its a lighter color when you do the spraying of the gray color.
 
J

jdrich48

New member
Thanks Taz. I looked at the paint again, and it is a pearl paint. But I've talked him into getting the sealer anyway so all should be good.
Thanks for your help, it's greatly appreciated.
Richard
 
T

TAZ

Guest
That's good to hear.

OR, if you want to save a little money, you can use a black basecoat paint as the base for the paint job. Just order a pint of black toner. This way you don't have to buy any special hardeners for the sealer. Maybe you have some left over from your bike

Black makes a great groundcoat for a charcoal metallic type color.
 
J

jdrich48

New member
I think I do have some left over from the bike project. But how will a pint cover the whole truck? What is black toner.
 
T

TAZ

Guest
My fault...for some reason I was thinking your were doing another bike.
I would definitely seal it then
Black sealer would be your best bet. Shouldn't take more than a quart.

Toner is just a paint used to make a 'color'.
 
J

jdrich48

New member
Taz, can I color sand and buff this pearl 1 stage urethane? Also I painted the hood today. And the pearl doesn't look even, it seems to look like you can see each pass I took with the spray gun.
The hood is off the truck, and I'd like to try to find out what if anything I'm doing wrong before I attempt to lay the paint on the rest of the truck. I'll post some pics as soon as the paint dries some more and I can get some better lighting.
 
T

TAZ

Guest
You can only wetsand and buff it if it's a solid color, not a pearl or metallic.

Even though it would have cost a little more, I would have recommended a true bc/cc especially for a metallic color. This is more forgiving.
Single stage metallics are cheaper but harder to paint.

Did you end up painting a basecoat or sealer? This should have made it a little easier if you did.

Most likely the 'stripes' you are getting is because you don't have the proper gun setup, air pressure is wrong, , you have the incorrect reducer, or you just aren't applying it right.
Hard to tell without actually being there and watching you to see why your getting the 'stripes'
 
J

jdrich48

New member
Yes I did apply a sealer, although the sealer he bought, they said could not be toned to the black you suggested. It was a dark gray however.
The paint tech sheet says to use a pressure of 40-70 psi. I went somewhat in the middle with 50 psi and a 1.7mm tip with a gravity feed gun. I applied 2 med coats.
The reason I was asking about the color sanding and buffing was I'm not painting in the best of conditions and have some dust specks in the paint. Is it possible to buff the paint later and remove some of the specks.
As always thanks for your advise, it's much appreciated.
Richard
 
J

jdrich48

New member
pics

Here are a couple pics, maybe they can give you some insight as to what I'm doing wrong. Their also appears to be some orange peele as well, which would indicate as you said I may not have the gun setup right.
100_2424.jpg

100_2427.jpg
 
T

TAZ

Guest
Richard,

The dark great sealer should have been fine to use.
As far as wetsanding the dirt specs, you can do this, but of course you'll have to be very carefull doing this. When you wetsand and non-clearcoated paint, what you are actually dong is disrupting the way the metallic laid on the paint.
What you might want to try with the rest of the truck is to spray 2 medium wet coats on one panel, then do the next panel, THEN go back to the first panel and hold the gun a little further way and just do a criss-cross pattern pretty quickly, go to the third panel, spray 2 medium wet coats, then go back to the second panel, do the criss-cross.
This really depends on what reducer you are using and how cold it it. If it's 50 out and you are spraying medium, you might want to do one complete side, then go back and do the criss-cross on that side before moving on.
In other words, you have to 'work' the metallic, so it lays right for you so you don't end up with the stripes. Once that panel tacks up, it's hard to do the criss-cross and have it 'melt' in to be effective. You'll end up having a dry panel. So you have to work it when it's fairly wet.
 
J

jdrich48

New member
Thanks Taz. I almost wish I hadn't got involved with this pearl paint. I'm just to new at this painting thing to be doing this. Or as you said I should have talked him into a bc/cc.
But being new to this and not knowing any better, I actually was the one that talked him into the single stage thinking it would be easier. Now I'm kinda stuck with all this dirt in the paint, with no way to get it out. Live and learn :)
Thanks for your info.
 
T

TAZ

Guest
What you might want to do is since you don't have the rest of the truck done, redo the hood. Do the complete hood and then do the chris-cross pattern to 'kill' those stripes.

Not for sure if I would just go ahead and do the rest of the truck. The hood would be an excellent panel to practice on.

I saw the pics, and this 'should' help get rid of those stripes.
 
J

jdrich48

New member
Taz what do I need to do to prep the hood to shoot it again? Can I just scuff it with some 400 grit then reshoot it.
Also I got to thinking last night, is it possible that I was to close when applying the paint the first time, thus the stripes? Do you need to hold off further with pearl paint? If so would I need to increase the spray pressure. And do you think the 1.7mm tip is to large, I have a 1.4mm tip for this gun?
 
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