Thanx EZ

[Mac_Muz]

Ok, here we go.... The fender came yesterday for my 84 Volvo...

The guys at the paint store / auto parts store say I need to spray this fender with a sealer. The sealer is non sandable, and then use no primer at all and top coat the fender with the paint the rest of the car will get....

I don't understand this. The fender has scratches in the black coating on it now.

basicly from what I can tell they want me to sand this fewnder with 320, then spray the sealer inside and out, and then paint the fender.... So to my way of thinking the scratches will show.

I have never used sealers before...

I was told that the primers are laquer based for the most part..... How can that be?

I had big time problems using laquers with enamels on the bike! I used primer on that bike in a big way with lots of primer too! I did not seal that bike tank and did go down to bare steel with it.....

The bike still looks great! I have been lucky and not dropped the bike parking, or stepping in a hole at night.... No stone chips either so far....

I thought I was begining to get this down, but every time I do I find I get more confused that I was before......

I don't know what that black stuff is on the new fender, and don't know how to deal with the scratches. Thankfully there are no dents, as this fender looks like it saw a few bad times in transit......

I will not be starting this job for 14 days or more yet, and will be changing the color of the car inside and out.

I was going to paint it a brilliant blue that Dodge used on 1999 and 2000 models "P36" I think it is. With NASON brand Dupont paint. This is a one step paint, that the shiney stuff is in, and no clear goes on after...

You do mix a hardener in it just before you shoot......

I have it down as how to take the car apart, and get off everything inside and out.

I can cut out the rust, and hope to learn mig welding as fast as Idoid arc welding. So I can weld on metal patches.

I have down the bit on applying a bondo type "Chrome-a-Lite" to bare steel, and sanding that.

I have down the priming and sanding till the smaller defects are gone.

I think I can handle the finall Painting part, but this non- sandable sealer has me doing a fit... Mac

 

[rex]

Hey Mac.Joe covered that one for you.We use alot of the epoxy primer because it has a variety of uses like corrosion protection on bare steel,excellent adhesion properties and it can be used as a sealer.I don't know the versatility of DuPont's though.The non sanding sealers cut out that last step of sanding so once the car is cleaned and taped for paint you just lay a coat of this down and paint it.It's main purpose is to minimize your paint from shrinking into or exagerating the sanding scratches,puts some primer on these spots and edges you might have hit metal sanding,and it gives a uniform base collor to paint over.Some colors,even in single stage,are a bit transparent so if you try going over the original finish with spots of primer here and there it takes more coats to cover it so you don't see darker or lighter spots where the primer is still kind of showing through the color.Alot of times it looks good in the booth but when you pull it out in the sun you can see a slightly different colored spot where the primer spot is.Doing spot repairs can be really fun with these colors at times.Single stage is usually a little more concentrated so a transparent color in basecoat will color a bit better in single stage.Take care.

 

[ezrider]

Mac, whats up? Hope your feeling better.thank god for the break in the weather.Sealers are basicaly a primer used for Corrosion protection and adhesion purposes and some times useing sealers to bring a job closer to the final color to be applied, it makes the job one uniform color.For new panel preporation ( your new fender) sand the whole panel with 320 as recomended by your supplier and feather the scratches out (sand them out) so you can no longer feel a scratch there.I am not too familar with the paint line your using but using PPG i can get away with using red scotch pads to scuff up the new parts and then applying a epoxy primer.Any way after all scratches are feathered out use a wax and grease remover and clean the panel and apply your sealer following the manufacters instructions ( i normally dont seal the back side just the top side and edges) after allowing the sealer the recomended drying time ( flash off) cut in all your edges ( blow color on all the edges that you might have difficulty getting paint on when you go to spray the car ). after letting the color dry you are ready to hang the fender on the car.A little advice about single stage paints, they are a little cheaper but they are not quite as durable as base clear systems , they can chalk and not as easy to repair. They are more difficult to apply ( metalic colors blotch and you really cant buff too much with out ruining them). most primers today are urethane based. laquer primers are still advalable, they are cheaper but they dont last , if you want the job to last think about the urethane primers. i hope this helped, automotive painting is a lot of chemistry its difficult to understand until the guess work is taken out of it, which i hope we are helping you with. when ever you buy an unfimilar product always get a tech sheet from the supplier this will some times help alot, sometimes the person selling you the product isnt always telling you all the necessary info ( some times they just dont know )Good luck and give us a yell if you need any thing else.

 

[Mac_Muz]

I think what I will do is take a few pics of the car as it is.... I can also take a few pics of what I have to work with..... And where. That in it self is a joke as much as the shower was for the bike tank and side covers...

If nothing else you guys will get a good laff at my efforts......

The only factory part is the new fender, many other parts will be made by hand as patches to what is there now....

I can't afford new door skins, and other body pannels for the car.....

The beater truck on the other hand gets factor body parts, and camo paint..... That won't have to be as good, just need to get rid of the rusted out sections. That project will be fun, compared to the car.....

I wanted the car done by pro's, but they wanted more than I could afford....

I have spent that much on tools now, but I can use the tools again....

There is a place that does make PPG type paint here, and maybe I wioll see these guys about getting the paint. They mix it right there, and I have seen the tools for doing that.

Here in New Hampster winter is hard on cars. It rains, snows, and is humid untill temps drop to 10'F or so... Anything below 10'F is usually dry.

At this time of year the dew is heavy in the morning as well.

The roads here are sanded and salted heavily, and that is what causes the rusting so baddly.

More than one kind of salt is used, and these create a fine dust in summer. You can find this salt dust everywhere in, and under any car.

Pinch welds collect this dust, and any moisture gets it started rusting.

No car 5 years old is free of rust here.

Buying a new car is out of the question, and so it is make do, or go with out.

I like my car as well. It is quick and is ok on gas, which is rocketing as I type this. It looks like another winter of $1.60 at the pumps for regular here this year.

Driving to work in winter will be 76 miles round trip, and the occasional trip to town for part is another 20 miles plus one way. I do almost 100 miles a day now, just for work, and work 8 plus hours at the shop.

The guy I work for is not hot at my taking off time to fix my car, but then I explained there is no way I will try walking to work! That is in 3 seasons 64 miles a day as it is...

What does not get painted will have to be coated with something.....

I don't mind a mess inside doors and under carpets at all.....

I have been known to fill pannels with ATF and roofing cement. I feel the ATF fills the pinch welds, and crimps, and then draining that and making a motor oil and roofing cement mix which varies depending on how dry I want it can stop water from getting to places in time.

It is messy and I would not offer this as a best way, but it works for me....

I have to take care about fire later when working though...

It is nice to see beads of water on top of that mess, and I have seen some at times....

My wife's car had a bad leak at the windshield gasket, and then I saw lots of water inside the car.....

We saved up for new glass, and did that, and no more leaks..... But finding the leak was not so easy, and getting that glass installed was a real B*^%Ch. I helped the glass guy, and he needed it!!

So, I'll stop yapin and get some pics on site (my photo albums and then post the link..... Thanks for helping.... I like the epoxy ideas....

Seal it fer Life!!!!!!!!

A side note: The rocker panells on my car is a known bad spot..... So I salvaged stainless steel from a trashed wheel chair. I will make a cover where the bad spot is, instead of patching a weld there. This way I can get access to the inside of the rocker panells and clean them from time to time......

What will be done, is square the rot hole, and clean and stop more junk from getting in, and cover it with the stainless and a few SS screws so no more problem there......

One thing about being your own customer is you don't have to go by the book.....

Thanks guys......... Mac

 

[rex]

Hey man.I remember the mess cars would get in when I still lived there.There's no way I'd want to be a bodyman there.Sounds like you have a good plan for the vehicles.replacing door skins suck so I wouldn't be concerned there.One thing you may want to try is something called ospho.It's basically phosphoric acid and it nuetralizes rust.You put it on and wait 24hrs and then topcoat it with paint,undercoating,anything to seal it off.I've used it on a few restos to pump in pinchwelds and hard to reach places that weren't going to be cut apart.Since the door is rotted,you know the rust has seeped farther than you can see on in the flange.The only problem with using it this way is you have to soak the area to get it to seep around the flange and wet all of it.The 24 hrs turns into 2 or 3 days of draining and wiping off the excess so it'll dry to be painted.I've never used it in your environment but I've seen it last for well over 7 years down here.When I lived on the coast we were constantly redoing top surfaces.Down here they rot from the top down from the salt air unless you back you're boat into the salt water.I've used it on hoods and roofs covered with surface rust with excelent results.Just an option if you can afford the extra time it takes to use it.The tar and oil works fine for undercoating inside panels.It's probably still cheaper than the wax based coating,and it seeps out and makes a mess too when it gets hot.Take care.

 

[Mac_Muz]

Just yesterday I was told about a Polyurethane paint...... Still I know very little more than it does exist......., but since there is a epoxie sealer, it seems to make sence to look into this poly paint....

What if anything do you guys know about this type paint?

I would love to rebuild the engine on this car and drive it into the ground 30 years hence...

It has all I want in a go from point a to b type car...... best of all there is no computer on board... Well that is not entirly true, but the little primitve box does not cause problems much, and most things can be worked out if it fails... The injection system works from a air meter, and acts much like a sea saw. All 4 injectors spray like garden hoses on this system....

I still have to take the pics and I seem to be having more probs back wise again.... DAMN!

So I will be a bit slow getting things done.... As I said with the bike.... This will happen!!!

I will record this as it happens as well.... Thanks fer putting up with me..... Mac

 

[rex]

That polyurethane is another option I forgot about,haven't used it in years.It's very popular for fleet painting.DuPont's Imron was the most popular of them,but I could never get the finish I liked with it.It's usually thinner than water to spray and it's extremely hard to buff,kind of like cement.It is a very durable finish and retains it's loss very well with age but I don't like it's brittleness.It'll chip easier than the rest because there's no acrylic in it for elasticity.Still good stuff though.Hope the back feels better.